mini 14 versus ar-15
 

Is this more or less a Ford vs Chevy thing? I want to buy a rifle sometime over the next few months. I have read the gun threads here as they appear. Intend to use this for playing, blasting coyotes (packs that can be heard, but so far, rarely seen), and killing zombies. Thinking about the mini 14 and .22LR conversion kit to keep costs down. I don't anticipate needing to hit anything over 150 yards out. Seems like I can get similar performance from the mini 14 for less bucks.

Is there a rifle that would be the equivalent to the Porsche 911 (rugged, reliable, functional)?

I've been debating this for the last several months, and I keep changing my mind: AK, Mini 30, mini 14, bolt action ranch rifle (recent thread by Jeff Higgins). Last thing I need is multiple rifles. I want one that can do it all. Already have too many vices.
jurgen

There is no clear answer... An AR done right is rugged, reliable, and functional... But so is an AK... Now IMHO the AR will be more accurate out of the box... I have no experience with a mini 14....

Jurgen - I don't know where you live (somehow I thought CA based on your real estate expertise) but in Cali our senator identified banned assault weapons by what they looked like rather than what they were capable of. In light of that fact I went with the mini-14 as it is practically the same gun as the AR (at least to my amateur mind).

I can tell you that I absolutely love the mini-14!

Yes, this is exactly a Ford vs. Chevy thing. Get what you want.

One thing I like about the AR is that there are A LOT of magazines availabe, and parts are really easy to find.

What would be a "Porsche" rifle? I'd say an AR-50. Precision-built for a single purpose.

Ferrari? Barret. :)

Bugatti Veyron? Dillon Aero. :eek:

My vote is AR-15. If price is an issue, go for a lower end one, and then build it up over time.

I've never owned or fired an AR-15.
But I absolutely love my mini.

I have used both and this is my order of preference:
AR15
AK
Mini14

I can't comment on mini 30's because I do not have experience with them. If you are just going after coyotes and aren't concerned about plinking or zombies then a bolt action would do great. I don't know the area you are in but I know that I would not be able to reach out far enough with 22LR to go after coyotes in the areas that I do...

FYI:
In the AR/Mini debate you will notice that a lot of people will just push for whatever they spent money on....it reminds me of 911 sway bars and how everyone who own's Smart Bars say they are the best and everyone who own Tarret's say they are the best...

mini-14's are great, no problems so far, owned one for many years...

How can you own just one rifle? It's impossible. Get one of everything mentioned here. I've had rifles down before while waiting for parts or researching how to repair an issue. You need at least two rifles.

Iam sure most of us own different caliber rifles.. the .223 is fun to shoot cause it causes less pain on the shoulders, you can pretty much shoot this rifle all day long :)

One caveat on Mini-14's - the older ones are notoriously inaccurate. The ones produced in the last several years have been markedly improved. So, if you like the Mini-14, buy a new one. Used ones are suspect as being dumped by someone who couldn't get it to shoot.

That said, even with the new ones, "good" Mini-14 accuracy is considered anything less than 2" - 2 1/2" groups at 100 yards from a bench. Good Ar-15's will better than halve that. The big question, though, is "does that really matter". The answer is "probably not". It all depends on what you expect out of it. For rolling coyotes at the ranges you describe, either will work wonderfully. Either one is a great plinker. Either one will give great service, and outlast you, if taken care of.

Unless you buy a cheap AR-15. The good, worthwhile ones run at least double, triple, or more above the cost of a basic Mini-14. They have become fashionable. With that, prices have climbed drastically, (IMHO) far oustripping the actual value of the rifle. Remember, these were designed to be produced in large quantities very cheaply; designed to a price, if you will. Unfortunately, that philosophy is no longer reflected in their price.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the Mini-14 is a far better value. Don't let its lower price fool you - it is simply priced where the AR-15's should be priced. It's a fantastic little rifle.

Of course, the ultimate in simple, cheap reliability and accuracy would be a standard weight bolt action in .223. It will be inherently more accurate than any semi auto (until you start spending really big bucks on one, anyway). It will have a better trigger hands down, be easier and cheaper to mount a scope on, and will not be nearly as fussy about ammunition. Or cleanliness. It will shoot far, far longer before fouling becomes an issue and it must be cleaned. There is only one little hole to clean - the bore - with no gas system to strip and clean periodically. The perfect rifle for someone who doesn't want to have to work on one.

I have a stainless mini 14...it doesn't group like a bolt action rifle, but groups quite well. With a scope, easy to get 1 1/2" inch groups with fmj ammo at 100 yards. Jeff? Maybe I just got a good one? It's no youngster, purchased back in the 70's. Not for sale, BTW...

I have a mini30 and it is great. It is not nearly as accurate as my buddies AR, but I paid a lot less, and it hits what i point it at. Never jammed, and ammo is cheap.

Highly recommended. A lot of countries use this as their weapon, as do a lot of prisons. Reliable and cheap, good combo.

Ruger used to buy barrels from a number of vendors. Quality was all over the map. They finally started making their own barrels in-house sometime in the '80's or '90's (I really can't remember when) and quality became far more consistant, and of a much higher level all around. We noticed a real difference, particularly in their #1's, which are very, very sensitive to poor barrels and poor tolerances. The M77's improved as well, but they didn't have as far to go.

The Mini-14 has historically been the most inconsistant of the lot. Some early ones shoot like a house-a-fire, but they are rarer than hen's teeth. Hold onto that one - you got very, very lucky... Most early Mini-14's were lucky to group under 3"- 4" at 100 yards. Any that did better were no fault of Ruger's.

The new ones will typically halve the group size of the old ones. On the average, they won't shoot as well as that one in a thousand old one, but this also means that the one "really good" new one you might stumble accross will be a real tack-driver. Just don't count on it.

It's important to emphasize that the Mini-14 did not benefit as much as the #1, or even the M77, when Ruger brought barrel making in-house. It had other, more deeply rooted problems, that even the best barrel made could not overcome. Stories are legion of folks that rebarreled these things to no avail and finally gave up. The root cause was some inherent problems in the manufacturing methods used to produce the actions; Ruger completely re-tooled Mini-14 production about 4-5 years ago to address this. So, while in the past there was a very slim chance you could luck into one where all of the tolerances stacked up the right way (and wind up with one like yours), the average accuracy of the rifle has gone up dramatically today. And the chances of getting a real dog are all but eliminated. Hell, I had one once that literally would not stay on the bottom of a coffee can at 100 yards, no matter what I did. Those days are gone.

Turners just had a sale on the Mini-14. I believe it was just under $700 band spanking new. That's a bunch cheaper than the $1100+ they were getting earlier this year.

wow they have gone up in price since I bought mine a few years ago... I remember only paying $400+ for mine..

if you get a mini 30 then you can also use the ammo for an AK47.
Mini 30 with a scope can be used for deer hunting

I think the local Wal-Marts have them for under $700, but that may only be in blued and not stainless.

If you want one rifle that can "do it all" i don't think you want a rifle in .223 at all.

That being said, the Mini-14 is a great rifle, and is a hell of a lot less money than an AR (I have owned both AR's and Mini's over the years). AR's are typically a lot more accurate and possess much greater range, but the Mini-14 is more resistant to fouling/dirt.

Either one is a great choice.

+1 to everything said here.

You got a good one, typical Mini-14s are about 2.5 MOA rifles.

You can get a Bushmaster AR off of Gunbroker for about $800 bucks. I think given the choice of a Mini-14 for $700 or an AR for $800, i'd go with the AR. My Bushmaster works flawlessly.

I've recommended Mini-14s to people for decades, but they never used to cost anywhere near that much money.

What do you guys use to shoot wild pigs?

Barnes makes an all-copper 70gr JHP solid X-bullet in .223 that should be quite well suited to pigs, or deer for that matter. It's in their "Triple shock" line.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=A6JqR4cs&q=barnes+.223+70gr&aq=f& oq=&aqi=

77gr Mk262 Mod1 (or civvie equivelant) would probably work well too.

A scoped Mini is a fine weapon. Caveat,,,,old man Ruger went liberal a few years ago and refused to keep making the larger capacity mags. He blamed them for lots of death and destruction. I have 4 aftermarket mags, and I had to work every one of them to get them to fit. One now goes in and out very nicely. One is acceptable, and the other 2 are still a pain. The work needed is at the front top area around the hole where the pin secures the front part to the weapon. Lots of excellent aftermarket mags for the AR, and I'm hoping sometime soon they will make one for my Mini. Especially the high impact plastic ones. Until then I got what I got. If money were no problem, then I would get an AR so they had company whilst in the safe.

It would be an easy decision for me if it's a $600 Mini vs a $800 AR. Magazines are twice (if not tripple) as much. Unless one doesn't care for the looks of the AR compared the Ruger, especially with the five rounder it looks fairly conventional.
I bought my first SP1 in the '70's, it was something that needed buying.
Jim

I have had really good luck with the Eagle mags for the mini-14.

Not many wild pigs around me...I never hung out with Tiger Woods.

I have both. One is the CAR-15 and the "other" is just a regular, run of the mill mini. While no tack drivers, (with my eyes) they both work well for me. "O" jambs or feed problems. I have had some aftermarket magazine issues with the Mini, but those were solved when I threw the crummy mags out. Using factory 20 rd. mags on the Mini I have had zero problems.

The AR will feed anything I put into it.

Cleaning seems to be easier on the AR, maybe just me.

I paid to much for the AR (Clinton era) and found a deal on the Mini.

Do some more research, everybody is making an AR and they're not all equal.

The Mini is a very good weapon, as is the AR

Your choice.

Karl
88 Targa

Just did some research on the eagle mags. Thanx for the heads up!!http://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/wat6.gif

why get a mini when you can have the maxi thing, M1-A AND a M-4. The perfect combination cause you don't get to choose what fight your going to but, you can choose the rifle!

Read on a forum that Ruger is began selling 30 round clips for the mini 14 at ~$50/each.

I didn't know you could get into an AR-15 for $800. Shows that I haven't really given that platform much thought. I was under the impression a decent AR-15 would be well north of 1k (Daniel Defense M4).

I'm going to let the comments sink in for a little while. My original thought was one rifle and one shotgun and be done. I'm pretty confident I won't find a crappy shotgun, but picking only one rifle is going to be tough.

James Brown, if I was willing to do two rifles and up the budget, M1A and M4 would be a great combination.
Back in a while, Jurgen in TN

IF you must have only one, go with the AR-15/M-4, you can carry more ammo

I used to use Eagle mags in my mini-14 too, they worked great, but i think the company is now defunct. The mags i had were 30rd clear units, and also fit AR-15s. I bought a bunch of them, and one time i took them out on a field problem with me, and handed them out to my squad mates. As well as the mags work with live rounds, they DO NOT work with blanks. LOL, i felt like a total ass when everyone's mags started jamming in our first "fire fight" of the field problem. LOL.

Always test your magazines BEFORE you need them for proper use. ALWAYS.

I currently have one Eagle polymer mag for my AR (and 14x30rd rebuilt Wolff GI mags, and 4x 20rd new milspec mags and a single 100rd beta C mag that cost as much as the rest of them combined, hahaha). The Eagle mag is the one i keep loaded in the rifle because i can just look at the rifle and see all the rounds in the mag, so i can tell just by a glance that it's ready to go.

I'll upload a pic in a sec. :)

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...r/DSC00283.jpg
Eagle smoked 30rd AR-15 magazine. Sniper tested, battle approved! ;)

As for the price of an AR, you can get a new in box Bushmaster XM-15E2S for about $850.00. That's the model i have, and brand new out of the box it was flawlessly reliable(not even a break in malfunction of any kind), and superbly accurate(right around 1 MOA).

As pictured above, including all the mags and a 1000rd of top quality "SHTF" ammo i am into it for well over $2500.00. The only thing you "really" need on a Bushie AR is a set of $75.00 night sights though. Anything else is a luxury item, not a requirement.

So figure about $950.00 for a 100% serviceable military grade AR. Of course buying an AR is all about modifying it for many people, here is the list of mods i had done to mine:

I added a match grade trigger assy($180), tritium night sights($75.00), Ambi-selector switch($60.00), ambi mag release($100.00....save your money), Wolf spring kit($35.00), Hogue free-float overmolded furniture($100.00), Walther PS-55 red dot and carry handle mount($100.00), AIM Green laser($100.00....i am not pleased with this unit. i wish i'd spent the $300.00 and bought the laser max unit), Front rail mount system($20.00), Bayonet($30.00), flash hider/skull crusher($30.00), arched triggerguard($20.00) and i had to buy an AR armorers tool($40.00). The 30rd mags are about $10-15 bucks each(I have 15), 20rd mags are about $9 bucks each(i have 4), and my Beta C mag kit was $250.00

If you elect to get a red-dot sight, do NOT pay over $150.00 for one. These things are really simple and proven mature technology. The $500 and up price tags you see for an EOTECH, AIMPOINT or TRIJICON are a total rip off. You can buy a completely serviceable Bushnell, Walther, Burris, etc red dot for 1/4 the price and they work every bit as well. I have a Walther PS-55 on mine.

I really hate to bash the AR, but I just never have liked them or the .223 round.... That being said, as a previous mini 30 owner, one thing that I can tell you is that the AR would be more versatile... I had toyed with the idea of purchasing a lower receiver and then purchasing a flat top upper/bull barrel kit, a car kit, and a standard kit... but stayed with my beloved M1A... which reminds me, I finally figured out how to get the hand guard off and finished painting it with textured paint to match the stock, will post pics when I can...

Would love to see the pix of your M-1A. To this day i have a soft spot in my heart for the M-14 series of rifles. :)

Give me 5mins....

Still waitin'! :)

Dude!!! Sorry man, I started a new thread with the pics lol...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/516637-my-zombie-spoon-complete-maybe.html

Is the sig 556 worth consideration? Fellow on ar15.com has one for $1150 shipped.

The AR-15 is littered with so many choices and options, and I'm not sure I'm ready to start walking that slippery slope.

The mini 14 is attractive, but it does look like the older mini-14s were junk. Even guys selling older mini's have difficulty mustering good words. While the newer manufacturing has helped the new mini-14s, I've read comments about new owners complaining about poor quality of the stocks, and suspect machining/fit.

Why are there so many new in box guns being sold by individuals? Were these guys hoping to ride the bubble to great profits?

All I know is what I read on the internet, so don't flame me. ;)

My local buddies are pistol nuts, and I haven't brought this up with any, yet. I figure you guys aren't going to BS me, too much. ;)