I talk to the buddy who got my foot in the door. Man I owe him something big I think...He told me that I should do what is best for me and now worry about anything else and definitely don't worry about him (he is very good at his job).

That is some load off but I still feel bad - not free and clear. I'll make it up to him.

This was my response to their promise of promotion:

The possibility of promotion - I'd like to discuss detailing out the requirements I need to meet to get it. This would be something we put in my quarterly review documentation I think. 'Promise of promotion' is very nebulous and in the past I have been promised it before and it is a promise that has never been kept to me. I think my part in those failed promises is that I may not have followed through completely with this conversation. What do I need to do specifically to make sure that I get it?

Otherwise; I think I'm good to stay. It still means changes as I'll be going to work for another group but it'll be slow change since my current group will need me for some time while they either complete the outsourcing deal or find some way to replace me.

The manager who is trying to keep me mentioned that he had been a 'hiring manager' for some time...

That led me to ask him if he had ever had anyone accept a counter offer. This guys working hard to keep me - pissing off HR (which I have no sympathy for) and getting worked up.

His response was 'once'.

I thought it was interesting.

You left out the new boss opinion of "arms reach" in your first assessment. This certainly isn't good, as others have pointed out.

But if you look at your last statement on how the counter looks like, that's just plain BS. What do they need to promise something for ONE YEAR out?

Get the new job. Listen to John (jyl) - he is on the right track. Look at what's best for your career.

George

As others have pointed out too - if this guy is out, you are on the chopping block. Never piss off HR - just my two cents.

Decision is made - interesting how you leaned the complete opposite than I would have.

George

You were left with a bad taste in your mouth regarding the "new" company? And then they came back and offered you significantly less than had been discussed? And you'd be working very hard, holding the bag for problems that come up (potentially unlimited hours of work), long commute, etc?

Mikey......life is short. Peace of mind is important.

I guess I'll say one more thing. Again, in a general sense. I'm a "Labor" guy, which means I am interested in the human aspect of commerce. There is a buy/sell relationship between employers and workers. Workers sometimes have ethical concerns about various options and decisions in the buy/sell relationship. Employers do not. Individual managers might consider them, but generally it is the "employee" who has ethical dilemmas, not the "employer." When an employer doesn't see the cost/benefit ratio they want, the employment relationship is terminated.

That being said, the politics within companies and industries can be HUGE. I recently ran into a bit of a buzz-saw recently and mercifully landed on my feet. Because I do not play games. Nobody in my industry will say "Superman screwed me." Nobody. But I'm unique in that regard. I guess what I am saying is that, as you rise to the higher echelons, WATCH YOUR BACK. Plenty of people will do whatever it takes. Whatever it takes.

I would accept the counter and stay.

A new job plus 2 hours of commuting will mean a lot more time and expense. Commuting in particular is a waste of life. When I switched to work at home, saving the commute time was huge - and I only had a 20 min. commute. Also, you need to factor in taxes to the cost argument above. $3000 in gas expense is close to $5000 in marginal salary.

But, by far, the biggest reason to stay where you are is that you do not seem excited about the new job! Why go through all the grief if it doesn't sound fun?

I think I left this hanging - I did accept the counter offer and stayed. I'll be watching the outsourcing happen soon...

I'm still working on my certification and they have paid for training and travel.

I will say this - I made far more money on staying than I expected and if it weren't for the outsourcing crap - I would be hard pressed to find anything else wrong with my job. I'm trying to make the most of it. Trust is still an issue on the long term side of things.

Good choice.

I got to this late and just read your original post. You made the right move in my opinion. If you can stay put for 2-3 years the whole reputation angle of this with the other place will be long forgotten. Once upon a time I jumped for a job and during the whole interview process got an odd rub from the future supervisor. I ended up being dead-on about the guy too and was miserable with him for 1 year, 3 months, 12 days, 8 hours...you get the idea...until I left.

I think anyone in their right mind would understand the commute aspect and the attraction to working at home. This isn't the 70's anymore...

Good luck!