Where is France?

[Grady Clay]

Where is France?

It seems to me that the French slave colony is what Haiti is today. Why isn’t it that France isn’t standing up for more than the US in rescue and reconstruction?

I think France has a moral obligation to ‘adopt’ Haiti and turn their former slave colony into a Provenance of France – if Haitians are willing.

If nothing else, France should stand up to its moral obligation.

We will see.
French culture is on the line.

Best,
Grady

[peppy]

Isn't it bad enough having the French in Canada.

[SoCal911T]

Originally Posted by Grady Clay

Where is France?

ummm, they're on the other side of the Atlantic.

Subversive, left wing NY Times story: French Groups Criticize Handling of Relief Flights - NYTimes.com

[TRE Cup]

France is very much a large part of why Haiti is soo dang poor. Get this: France got the government of Haiti to pay "reparations" to France after it was let out of being a colony. Along with the crushing debt, came interest , and i think they finally paid the french off in the mid fifties ! (from weak feeble memory- sorry if i am wrong on the date)
So the small country that depended on agricultural exports was doomed by its imperial power. The country has not had good luck ever

Other than the Medecins san Frontieres, what other even semi french group has lifted a finger to help ?

[legion]

The French are in exactly the same place they were during WWII and Vietnam: running away and expecting the U.S. to clean up their mess.

[daepp]

I could not agree more, Grady, but seldom has France done the moral thing in my memory!

[tabs]

France is a state of mind...

[jyl]

Kind of like the USA making reparations to the Native Americans for taking the country and wiping out much of the people, or the South making reparations to American blacks for slavery, or Spain making reparations to the natives of Central America, or the Australians making reparations to the Aborigines, or the Japanese making reparations to the Chinese . . .

Ain't happening. Doesn't mean the French don't have a moral black mark, just means that they're part of a pretty big club.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Grady Clay

Where is France?

It seems to me that the French slave colony is what Haiti is today. Why isn’t it that France isn’t standing up for more than the US in rescue and reconstruction?

I think France has a moral obligation to ‘adopt’ Haiti and turn their former slave colony into a Provenance of France – if Haitians are willing.

If nothing else, France should stand up to its moral obligation.

We will see.
French culture is on the line.

Best,
Grady

I agree.

[svandamme]

one could argue it's been more then 105 years ago since, and that the French rule that managed the slave colony, is long gone...Haiti established independance shortly after the French freed themselves from Monarchy...except for the period of US occupation from 1915-1934 prior to a run of dictators...

Then there's George Washington who directed Thomas Jefferson... both slave owners at the time... to send 400 000 USD to the white planters in Haiti... to help them resist the slave rebellion...

How long does historical debt carry??
There have been 2 world wars, and a cold war since...We're no longer in the 1800's anymore, in fact, the 1900's have come and gone.

And how does this factor in?

France commits 10 million euros for Haiti relief : Europe World

14.4 million dollar
2 ships
5 planes
260 relief workers


Sure it's not the biggest contributor, but is there a competition going on??
And how about logistics... planes get diverted all the time from the US controlled airstrip
France is not next door to Haiti like the US is.. it's not their backyard.

French Groups Criticize Handling of Relief Flights - NYTimes.com

Cargo planes diverted, while a US Governor with private jet get through after pulling some strings?

It ain't black and white. excuse the pun..

[Geronimo '74]

Originally Posted by svandamme

How long does historical debt carry??
There have been 2 world wars, and a cold war since...We're no longer in the 1800's anymore, in fact, the 1900's have come and gone.

..

Very well put Stijn!!

I has been so long since Haiti was a colony that it is safe to say that for the vast majority of the French people Haiti is a country like any other.
Not that I'm defending France, I do not think think that it needs defending. The issues between US and France do not involve me, nor do I wish to get involved.
I just agree with Stijn on this matter, nothing more, nothing less.

(How long will it take before this thread is moved to PARF??? any guesses? )

Originally Posted by svandamme

And how about logistics... planes get diverted all the time from the US controlled airstrip
..

I think America took control over the airport to also protect their own borders from terrorism. Haiti could make an easy accespoint to the US right now. So I completely understand this.

[imcarthur]

Gee. Here is something new on PPOT. American hatred of France. You are looking awful small, guys.

Ian

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

Gee. Here is something new on PPOT. American hatred of France. You are looking awful small, guys.

Ian

Too right.

And before you blame France for all of Haiti's problems, do some reading on US interference in the internal affairs of Haiti, and all the deliberate actions taken by the US to destabilize Haiti over the years.

[1990C4S]

I suspect at this point in time Haiti has far closer ties to America and Canada than France.

There are plenty of reasons to criticize France. IMO this isn't one of them.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

History shows that:

The Peoples of other countries carry the burden of moral obligation, and almost always rise to the occasion.

The Governments of other countries have "interests," and almost always exploit others to further their own.

[lm6y]

YAY More U.S. Bashing!!!!!!!

The truth of the matter is, the United States wil do more than any other nation to help, and will be criticised more than any other nation for not doing enough.

Yep we're a nation of horrible, horrible people.

[svandamme]

Don't act all offended over something that noboby in this thread even suggested
Read this : "nobody was criticizing the US for not doing enough".


I just feel it's not right to go around saying that others aren't doing enough, over some hypothetical debt they supposedly owe for what happened many, many generations ago.
It's not supposed to be a competition, it's not supposed to be an exercise of who owes who.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by svandamme

one could argue it's been more then 105 years ago since, and that the French rule that managed the slave colony, is long gone...Haiti established independance shortly after the French freed themselves from Monarchy...except for the period of US occupation from 1915-1934 prior to a run of dictators...

Then there's George Washington who directed Thomas Jefferson... both slave owners at the time... to send 400 000 USD to the white planters in Haiti... to help them resist the slave rebellion...

How long does historical debt carry??
There have been 2 world wars, and a cold war since...We're no longer in the 1800's anymore, in fact, the 1900's have come and gone.

And how does this factor in?

France commits 10 million euros for Haiti relief : Europe World

14.4 million dollar
2 ships
5 planes
260 relief workers


Sure it's not the biggest contributor, but is there a competition going on??
And how about logistics... planes get diverted all the time from the US controlled airstrip
France is not next door to Haiti like the US is.. it's not their backyard.

French Groups Criticize Handling of Relief Flights - NYTimes.com

Cargo planes diverted, while a US Governor with private jet get through after pulling some strings?

It ain't black and white. excuse the pun..

It carries until we stop being the cause of entire populations of people living in abject poverty.

White people....always trying to wash their hands of thier atrocities, and usually without so much as a "sorry."

Sheesh.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by lm6y

YAY More U.S. Bashing!!!!!!!

The truth of the matter is, the United States wil do more than any other nation to help, and will be criticised more than any other nation for not doing enough.

Yep we're a nation of horrible, horrible people.

Have you read this thread? It is Frrance that is being bashed. There are some threads on PPOT that will allow you to use the quote above, I don't think this is one of them.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Dottore

Too right.

And before you blame France for all of Haiti's problems, do some reading on US interference in the internal affairs of Haiti, and all the deliberate actions taken by the US to destabilize Haiti over the years.

Who didn't see this coming?

So it's the US's fault that Haiti was a slave colony of France?

I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN!