2010 Prius - what a nightmare!

[dd74]

Man, at least five Prius cars in my neighborhood will be headed back to the dealer now that a recall has been issued for 436,000 of them.

BBC News - Toyota recalls thousands of Prius cars worldwide


Time to bow and take it, Toyoda...

[Geronimo '74]

Better take all sharp objects out of mister Toyodas hands....

[look 171]

Turly sad to see as I am a huge fan of Toyota. They make such fine automobiles. Since I was 17, I have always had one or more Toyotas. They were damn great. Every single one of them. Too bad.

[Schumi]

Nothing of these recalls will have any effect on my perception of toyota vehicles. I'd buy another AE92 coupe, t100 truck, or Tundra sr5 in a heartbeat.


I've never been a fan of their new vehicles however, with the exception of the TRD Tundra.

[m21sniper]

Even the recall where toyota covered up the acceleration problem for 7 years until people finally died?

I will never buy a Toyota again.

[Aurel]

It is those US parts they put in them that screwed the Toyota quality.

[stomachmonkey]

My brother has been all over the news and in the papers in S. FL. He runs the shop for S. Fl's largest Toyota dealer. They have 50 bays and have been working double shifts since the replacement parts started showing up. He'll be pocketing an extra $10,000k for the month.
He says the showroom is busier than ever. Car sales are very healthy. The recall has been better for business than CFC.

This part is not unique to Toyota. They got reports that Ford shut down a line last week for the same reason. Apparently if you have a fly by wire car made in the US there is a high probability that you have that unit installed.

[The Gaijin]

There is a huge pile on Toyota mentality for what looks like unrelated problems:

#1 - ill fitting floor mats.

#2 - sticky brake petal assembly. (What they are fixing at dealers right now..)

#3 - "faulty" anti-lock brakes. (Most likely an unusual brake feel in lose or otherwise slippery roads.)

#4 - issues with with regenerative braking transitioning into friction braking on the hybrid vehicles.

#5 - drive by wire software issues.

Considering the overall quality and safely of all the Toyota's in the road, over a 200K per vehicle lifespan - they are still safer than most cars on the road..

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Car sales are very healthy. The recall has been better for business than CFC.

I find that very hard to believe.
First off -- a busy sales floor doesn't necessarily mean good sales.
Secondly -- seven of their top cars have been marked as "unsellable."

So what are they selling, dozens and dozens of FJ's? Doubtful.

These multiple recall issues will likely put huge dent in Toyota's sales and reputation. It will hurt Lexus as well.

Given the current state of the auto industry, this could not have happened at a worse time for Toyota, IMHO.

It is going to be interesting to see how this pans out in the short term. In the long term, I am certain that Toyota will get through -- but the 2010 year looks pretty grim for them on two fronts:
1. The cost to do all these recalls will be very, very high.
2. Short term sales will take a dive.
3. There is very little emotional appeal in Toyotas -- they build perfect cars. Perfectly reliable, perfectly functional, and perfectly boring cars. No passion, no excitement. Take away reliability, and you are left with not a whole lot of excitement. And let's face it - lots of folks buy their cars on the emotional connection. Maybe this will help Toyota to realize they need to update their lineup with some more cool cars - like the AE86, the MR2, and even the Supras and Celicas of days gone by.

Then again, I'm not a car market analyst, so what do I know?
-Z-man.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

My brother has been all over the news and in the papers in S. FL. He runs the shop for S. Fl's largest Toyota dealer. They have 50 bays and have been working double shifts since the replacement parts started showing up. He'll be pocketing an extra $10,000k for the month.
He says the showroom is busier than ever. Car sales are very healthy. The recall has been better for business than CFC.

This part is not unique to Toyota. They got reports that Ford shut down a line last week for the same reason. Apparently if you have a fly by wire car made in the US there is a high probability that you have that unit installed.

Ford licensed Toyota's technology for it's hybrids...

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

There is a huge pile on Toyota mentality for what looks like unrelated problems:

#1 - ill fitting floor mats.

#2 - sticky brake petal assembly. (What they are fixing at dealers right now..)

#3 - "faulty" anti-lock brakes. (Most likely an unusual brake feel in lose or otherwise slippery roads.)

#4 - issues with with regenerative braking transitioning into friction braking on the hybrid vehicles.

#5 - drive by wire software issues.

Considering the overall quality and safely of all the Toyota's in the road, over a 200K per vehicle lifespan - they are still safer than most cars on the road..

#2 is a sticking GAS PEDAL.

#1 was the original belief of the problem with #2

It sounds like an over-travel issue. The shim fix seems pretty klugey to me, but the NTSA has already bought off on the fix.

[SpeedracerIndy]

Originally Posted by Aurel

It is those US parts they put in them that screwed the Toyota quality.

I realize you are not being serious with your post, but this one really chaps my a$$ because I think a lot of people believe it to be true. There was an report broadcast recently (NPR maybe?) where someone was interviewing random people in Japan about the recalls. It was stated that a large portion of the public believes that the reason for the recall is because Toyota "relies to heavily on the American workforce". They don't fault Toyota for any design flaws. How do you explain the recalls spill over into Europe? I wanted to reach through my radio and smack that guy when I heard it.

[red-beard]

Your first problem is listening to NPR and expecting news...

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

There is a huge pile on Toyota mentality for what looks like unrelated problems:

#1 - ill fitting floor mats.

#2 - sticky brake petal assembly. (What they are fixing at dealers right now..)

#3 - "faulty" anti-lock brakes. (Most likely an unusual brake feel in lose or otherwise slippery roads.)

#4 - issues with with regenerative braking transitioning into friction braking on the hybrid vehicles.

#5 - drive by wire software issues.

Considering the overall quality and safely of all the Toyota's in the road, over a 200K per vehicle lifespan - they are still safer than most cars on the road..

That perception is one that's been fueled by years of ignorance.

PS: Don't forget the 3 second to kill engine stop switches. They really should reprogram all of those too. That is a completely unsafe feature.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally Posted by SpeedracerIndy

There was an report broadcast recently (NPR maybe?) where someone was interviewing random people in Japan about the recalls. It was stated that a large portion of the public believes that the reason for the recall is because Toyota "relies to heavily on the American workforce". They don't fault Toyota for any design flaws. How do you explain the recalls spill over into Europe? I wanted to reach through my radio and smack that guy when I heard it.

One of my wife's friends from Japan emailed us and asked what was going on here in the States. Her husband works for Toyoda in Japan and apparently the the info he has is that all of this is a smear campaign by the American Big 3.

[m21sniper]

Unbelievable.

Tell her that the faulty DESIGN specs came from Japan.

[The Gaijin]

Originally Posted by BlueSkyJaunte

One of my wife's friends from Japan emailed us and asked what was going on here in the States. Her husband works for Toyoda in Japan and apparently the the info he has is that all of this is a smear campaign by the American Big 3.

More like the American media.

Old guy in NYC yesterday crashed his Camry through 30' of bushes and shrubs into a building. The breathless reporting had the "throttle sticking". Why exactly was he driving through a residential area with a full throttle???

And what about the brakes? It has been proved the brakes can overpower the throttle on any Toyota model.

This happens all the time in all kinds of cars. 99.999% or the time, somebody gets shaken - and stomps on the gas petal.

Bad and elderly drivers are 100,000% more of a problem than any particular Toyota..

[m21sniper]

Except for the one the cop died in.

If you're on the highway simply locking up the brakes is not an option. You'll get rear ended and probably killed. So i can easily see how the brakes would in fact be INsufficient in many scenarios in that Toyota. Ride the brakes in highway traffic, by the time you get over several lanes to the shoulder, they might be so overheated and faded that they don't work.

The cop's brakes were on fire.

There was an absolutely negligent amount of testing put into this software apparently, that lets all this happen. Coupled with a poorly designed and defective throttle pedal.....

Boom. Dead family of 4 and hundreds of such crashes in the last 7 years. (and lets not forget that the lexus also EXPLODED when it crashed.)

An independent survey showed that fully 10% of lexus customers of a certain model had experienced this event!

This is not just a media witch hunt, though i hope that it does in fact intensify. Toyota deserves to get nailed to the cross for this one.

Straight to the cross.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

More like the American media.

Old guy in NYC yesterday crashed his Camry through 30' of bushes and shrubs into a building. The breathless reporting had the "throttle sticking". Why exactly was he driving through a residential area with a full throttle???

And what about the brakes? It has been proved the brakes can overpower the throttle on any Toyota model.

This happens all the time in all kinds of cars. 99.999% or the time, somebody gets shaken - and stomps on the gas petal.

Bad and elderly drivers are 100,000% more of a problem than any particular Toyota..

That is not the case with the Toyota - I think you should read the specs on the recall. At medium throttle the car goes into full throttle unexpectantly. Not because of the driver, but due to a faulty switch, software, or whatever they are blaming it on now.

Stepping on the brake is a seemingly simple solution - IF the car were going straight with no need to turn to avoid obstacles, and the driver is prepared to hit the brakes. So in ideal conditions, the brakes will overpower the engine BEFORE the car hits anything. As for the case in NYC, I doubt that old man driver was in ideal conditions.

As for the 'Big 3 Smear campaign' I would like to see how the deaths which have been caused by this safety issue is part of this media campaign.

This is not simply a user-error type problem. Toyota's got a BIG problem on their hands -- the way they fix it will determine if they can move on from this.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Aurel

It is those US parts they put in them that screwed the Toyota quality.

Seriously, that may be very true, if not blatantly true, but isn't it up to Toyota to seek out those ailments with their quality control? I think so. It's their responsibility, and in that, their fault.

It's worse for the Prius, as that is a software malfunction that seems to have developed in house.