What is up with the 1999 996?

[javadog]

Originally Posted by speeder

And of course, as the experts here will tell you, there's nothing but crap on eBay. Check out this POS:

I don't think anybody said that, exactly. But, I can't tell much about this car, from the pictures. E46 M3's have their issues, so caveat emptor.

Plus, the guy's already met his reserve and he's $5-6k short of clean retail for a stock car, never mind all the add-ons. Not trying real hard, is he?

JR

[K9Torro]

I owned one for many years and never once had a problem with it, it was a great car just sold it matter of fact to an attorney who is using it as his daily driver and loves it. It is a lot of car for the buck.

Todd

[speeder]

Originally Posted by javadog

I don't think anybody said that, exactly. But, I can't tell much about this car, from the pictures. E46 M3's have their issues, so caveat emptor.

Plus, the guy's already met his reserve and he's $5-6k short of clean retail for a stock car, never mind all the add-ons. Not trying real hard, is he?

JR

Not enough of an expert on M3s to argue about the real $$ exchange rate on them but

A) The only number that matters is what the auction ends on and

B) You strike me as one of those guys who believes that there is some super-secret *full retail* market for common used cars that none of the rest of us can ever find when selling.

And of course you're right about caveat emptor but that really applies to all used car purchases. The Q&A on the bottom of the page on this one says a lot including answers to excellent questions and his willingness to let people do independent PPIs. If I was in the market, I'd be up north looking at this one.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by javadog

For those of you still paying attention, let me say that over the last year I have purchased several hundred things from auctions all over the world. They have their place. And, I have been doing this since online auctions began, so I think I have it figured out. However, once you have played around in the deep end of the collector car market for a while, you'll find that the truly exceptional cars never make it to the market. They trade hands in a fairly small circle of buyers. The cars just below that are better sold one-on-one, as there is not much opportunity to do any due diligence in an auction environment. I'll spend more money on something I can see in person, examine thoroughly and drive, than I will on something I can only see in a 800x600 photoshopped digital picture, from 2,000 miles away. There may be people that blow their last dollar on an eBay auction but I'll guarantee you that experienced collectors prefer to deal in cars the old-fashioned way.

One last thing. An auction result can often be vastly higher than market price, if you get two idiots trying to outdo each other. That has more to do with stupidity, than the relative worth of something.

JR

PS. to Sid. Get burned a few times by a deadbeat seller, experience first-hand eBay's astonishingly inneffective dispute resolution process, get hosed by Paypal and then report back to me.

I actually don't disagree with anything you said here. I'm referring to common cars, (as opposed to top collector cars), M3s and most 911s are common. And my comment about "nothing but crap on eBay" was not directed at you but others here who (erroneously) believe that. It's an extreme *buyer beware* deal as always but an amazing marketing tool and resource for vehicles for sale, along with all of the other sites/venues. You sound pretty well-informed, no offense intended.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by speeder

You strike me as one of those guys who believes that there is some super-secret *full retail* market for common used cars that none of the rest of us can ever find when selling.

Well,

I have bought and sold a lot of cars, so I guess it comes from experience. I'm in the process of thinning my collection and I have sold 7 vehicles in the last year, plus others before that. Every one of them was sold at a price significantly higher than the highest retail "book value" for the specific models (using NADA, KBB, etc.) Why? Well, my cars tend to be lower mileage, well optioned, well serviced and I work to make sure that the buyer understands what he is getting. It takes some time but the end result is I get more than what the average seller gets and the buyer gets a better car than other similar cars on the market. I tend to throw a lot of money at my cars, so I lose money on every sale but I have gotten to enjoy them for a period of time and that is worth something to me.

From the buyer's perspective, sooner or later you figure out that, when buying a car, it's better to buy one that is at the top end of the market. It's always cheaper to buy the finished product than to buy an average car and try to make it nicer. Some buyers understand that. Some don't.

Cheers,
JR

[javadog]

Originally Posted by speeder

Not enough of an expert on M3s to argue about the real $$ exchange rate on them but

The Q&A on the bottom of the page on this one says a lot including answers to excellent questions and his willingness to let people do independent PPIs. If I was in the market, I'd be up north looking at this one.

I've owned 5 M3s, and other BMWs, so I'm reasonably familiar with them, although I don't follow the market much anymore. I took a look at the eBay listing for a minute or so and here's what jumped out at me. The car wasn't really well presented. You generally don't want to buy a car on a rainy day, or at night, so I suppose you shouldn't photograph one in those conditions either. The car wan't well-detailed and had some minor damage, curb rash to wheels, wear to the seat foam on the driver's side, etc. I'd wager from the title history and loan information that this might be the second owner and he has only had the car a year and a half. That's probably something he should have disclosed. Odd that he has lots of modifications, yet not a single engine photo. No trunk photos. Etc.

It's probably not a bad car but it wouldn't take much to market the thing a little better.

Cheers,
JR