Is Apple evil?

[gr8fl4porsche]

As advised in the other thread about Steve Jobs, I am starting my own thread concerning the business practices of our beloved Apple Regime. Sorry about my rant, I was having a bad day.

First off, I love Apple products. I own 7 of their devices and find them to be top- notch electronics, But, there's always a but, Apple's proprietary software controls earn them the title of 'Evil'. If Bill Gates even hinted at the kind of BS that Steve Jobs actually gets away with, there would be lawsuits aplenty and rioting in the streets.

Please let me explain.

For those of you outside the hardcore iPhone world, this is what is going on concerning Apple's new iPhone OS called 3.13.

A couple of months ago, Apple released version 3.13. This is not a new polished version of the preceding OS 3.12, but a jailbreak killer. Jailbreaking is a method of removing Apple's requirement to only use digitally signed and approved applications on the iPhone. Jailbreaking allows one to install any custom app they find useful and also allows customization of the graphic portion of the phone. Jailbreaking is a violation of Apple's stated warranty (1 year) and everyone who jailbreaks understands this and takes the financial risk. When you hear complaints that the iPhone doesn't do some function like multitask, once jailbroken, the iPhone now multitasks. In my opinion, jailbreaking allows the iPhone to function as the most useful smartphone on the market. Currently, Apple's competitors in the smart phone market allow and encourage users to make their phones all they can be.

When Apple introduced 3.13, they stopped signing 3.12 and all previous versions, making it impossible to install or reinstall a previous operating system on your phone. There currently is no possible way to downgrade a new iPhone.

You are probably saying to yourself, big deal, just use the new OS. Well think of it this way. Lets say you have a business. Your business is running perfectly using MS XP. One morning you go into the office and find that you have a hard drive going bad. You replace the defective hardware, go to reinstall XP and discover that MS no longer allows you to install XP, you are forced to use Win7. Microsoft tells you they won't charge you for Win7 but XP is gone. There is no possible way to restore your previous OS, it is gone forever. Now imagine that most of your setup is not compatable with Win7 and you simply can't use it anymore. Sorry, too bad. Your screwed. As stated, rioting in the streets would ensue.

But Apple essentially gets away with the same thing because many believe that once you sell a product to an individual, you retain the right to absolutely control that products use and function. I simply want Apple to sell me a device and then let me alone. If I break the phone with my mods, I understand that and can live with the consequences. But that is not good enough for the god-like Mr. Jobs, he wants to tie the strings and make people dance.

Sure I'm bitter. I have weeks of work and some $$ wrapped up in customizing, tweaking and setting up my iPhones which I use to run my business. Now that is all gone.

[GH85Carrera]

It sucks. I suspect the jail breakers will not take to long to jailbreak 3.13. That does not fix your problem now however.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by gr8fl4porsche

But Apple essentially gets away with the same thing because many believe that once you sell a product to an individual, you retain the right to absolutely control that products use and function. I simply want Apple to sell me a device and then let me alone. If I break the phone with my mods, I understand that and can live with the consequences.

Of course, part of the reason that he does it is to make money, if he retains control, then he can ensure that there's a reason to upgrade. Also, I think Apple banks on the whole "our stuff is perfect and always runs perfectly" reputation (whether true or not). To keep that rep, they have to maintain control. Give the control to the monkeys that are holding the things and you end up with all sort of screwed up stuff.

Apple makes some great products that work. But I really like my Android phone.

[nostatic]

You go in knowing that Apple does not like or allow jailbreaking. You have a choice with other products. To buy an iPhone then complain because Apple made it so you can't "customize" is a little unfair imho.

You want a phone for customizing, buy something else. Has nothing to do with evil. If you want to talk evil, talk Google and how much information they collect and what they're going to do with it.

[maxnine11]

I think Steve is stalking my iPhone .....
should that be its own thread ??

[Gogar]

Someone will find a way to crack 3.13 a few days before os4 comes out.

[stomachmonkey]

Simple answer, buy a different phone.

You own a PSP?

Same thing.

[gr8fl4porsche]

Apple not liking or allowing jailbreaking is fine. Eliminating the warranty due to mods is fine. My evil statements refer to the act of distributing new software for the sole intent of destroying previous software mods. I purchased the phone with a specific operating system that I knew I wanted. Apple will not let me keep that OS - I must upgrade when issues arise.

I simply want the device I originally purchased. When MS issues upgrades, you have the option of installing or not. Once installed, if you are not happy you can downgrade.

[scottmandue]

Apple is not evil.

Computers are evil.

Notice have they have tricked us into caring tracking devices (cell phones) so they can keep an eye on us at all times?

[nostatic]

Check your EULA.

You know this is an issue. Buy a different phone. Life isn't that hard sometimes...

[gr8fl4porsche]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Simple answer, buy a different phone.

You own a PSP?

Same thing.

But I don't want a different phone. As stated, I loved my old iPhone. I just want to be able to reinstall the OS that came with the phone - not the new one.

I do not have a PSP but I have a hacked wii for the kids. You are correct - they issue the same type of upgrades. Auto upgrade is turned off. I guess I will have the same rant when my wii craps out.

Sure, I know all of this going into my mods, but it still pisses me off when companies launch strikes against the end users (abusers) of their products. Make the new models however you want, install whatever controls deemed necessary, but to force consumers to upgrade against their will is BS.

3.13 is reportedly being skipped as far as jailbreaking is concerned.
4.0 beta JB is already complete according to George Hotz.

[Sapporo Guy]

BJ'ing and then getting the latest update would normally mean that the previous mods will break. I never update Apple products until I have read "good" news first.

However, I am going to agree that Apple is getting a little too big for their pants regarding their software. But times have changed and older users and original fan bois are no longer necessary to keep the company going.

I can't complain too much since Apple is just protecting themselves from another era of death warmed over.

[JavaBrewer]

Well Jobs and ATT certainly did their homework. Not being a big fan of Apple I was really hoping for a Android phone but needed to stay with ATT (signal at home & family plan). The MOT Backflip was a disappointment so after reading the praises of a jailbroken iPhone I went against my better judgment and picked up the 3GS...running with 3.1.3...

My bad. Hopefully someday 3.1.3 will be cracked or the soon to be released OS will - or maybe I'll just sell the iPhone or give it to my wife and switch over to Android phone if/when ATT decides to be serious.

[Jagshund]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

Apple is not evil.

Computers are evil.

Notice have they have tricked us into caring tracking devices (cell phones) so they can keep an eye on us at all times?

Ha! I have foiled their plans by neglecting my cell. I don't even know where it is most of the time . . . like now, when my wife is probably trying to reach me.

Apple is very controlling, but I'd have to say that most of that is due to Jobs. He seems to be quite controlling in every way he can be (in both his personal life, public life and corporate duties). They'll probably move in another direction once he leaves the company (or dies behind his desk).

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by gr8fl4porsche

But I don't want a different phone. As stated, I loved my old iPhone. I just want to be able to reinstall the OS that came with the phone - not the new one.

The only way around that is to buy a used piece of same spec hardware from fleabay or craigs list and restore from your last backup.

[island911]

"Buy a different phone." --seems to brush-off the OP concerns.

There is plenty to like about Apple products, just as there is about msft products, or RIMM products, or Motorola...

What is striking is how the fanboys (and stock-holders) here let the 'good' of Apple products cloud their thinking. News-Flash: Apple is an AGGRESSIVE business player. --I hate to harsh your mac-mellow, but, seriously dude, Appl is big business....

Both Jobs and Gates played to win. Gates has moved on to other things, and Jobs is still pushing hard! --impressively so. I do hope that Both companies continue to push, and the new players continue to raise the bar. All of this competition is great for the consumer.

... Which gets us back to; 'don't like it? --Buy a different phone." (pssst; there are MANY alternatives out there . . .and more each day.

[red-beard]

I'm on a mailing list from a comany that does Jail Breaking. They are waiting for everyone to upgrade to 4 so they can use an exploit they have lined up. If they use it on 3.1.3, then 4 will fix the exploit.

[red-beard]

Oh to answer the original question. Apple is a corporation, therefore it is evil...

Anyway, the whole "jailbreaking" thing is another reason I'm on WM. I's consider Android, but it needs a few years to mature.

[enzo1]

calling "APPLE" evil is like calling "America" evil.... thats what liberal apologist do, USA is constrained because of this attitude. This is an American company that is on the world stage showing that the USA is the best at innovating and producing great products. Apple is growing more over seas than here. Do you really want LG, HTC and other foreign company's to continue to dominate electronics? Really? http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/story/10741529/1/steve-jobs-leads-us-to-a-new-economy.html

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by enzo1

is like calling "America" evil

The world has been trying to tell you that for years. Sheesh. Some people just don't listen.

Ian