Track days getting pretty expensive

[Deschodt]

I've done track days for a long time (15 years?), but I think I'm getting closer to quitting and building a decent racing simulator rig instead...

My current PCA region now wants $275 for a DE at Sebring these days... Ouch... Don't get me wrong, nice folks, good instructors, great track, but I recall paying $180 or so a couple years back, that's pretty steep inflation...

Have track rental fees gone out the window lately? In my region's case, I have a sneaking suspicion (but could be wrong) that the ratio of instructors to students is pretty high (based on the number I see) and that them paying the reduced rate (a pittance, $80 or less as I recall) has something to do with non-instructors paying through the nose...

I'm not whining about it, I've had fun, but it's getting a little expensive now for 3x35 min sessions... I could become an instructor I suppose but I *hate* being a powerless passenger ;-) I'm going one more time to check out my new-to-me Cayman S and then I'll probably quit (or pay $300 to Chin/Tracquest for a full day session, unlimited track time)

Just curious, is it this bad everywhere now ?

[Z-man]

The track fees are just a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the fees associated with putting your car on the track for a regular, run-of-the-mill DE. Consider the following costs:
- Maintenance on the car (and tow vehicle/trailer)
- Oil and gas
- Tires
- Brakes
- Food and lodging
- Tolls and other travel expenses.

Granted, as an instructor, the track fees are less, but I suspect that a typical instructor (who trailers a more-expensive-to-maintain sports car) will wind up paying more for a DE event than a student.

I have gotten involved with some other clubs, and find the single day events to be a little less of a burden on my wallet - I can get up super early, drive to the event on the day of the event, and drive back home at the end of the day. (I can do this with tracks that are less than 3 hours from home, like Pocono, Monticello, and Lime Rock Park).

As an instructor, I appreciate the discount -- some clubs don't charge the instructors any fee. But the day can be a bit hectic as well - I have often had 2 students assigned to me, and there is a commitment to teach. If I have a mechanical issue with my car, that needs to wait if my student is on the grid and ready to go. Still, I find instructing a blast -- you should try it! Oh - and the trick is to be the one in control of the car, even though the steering wheel, brakes and throttle are not infront of you!

-Z-man.

[Zeke]

The Z-man is spot on. We can do weekday track days at Willow Springs for $150 but that's just the first check you write. No more for me.

[Dixie]

Is that $275 for a day, or a weekend?


I don't think the price increase, or amount of increase, is limited to DEs. A couple years ago lunch would cost me less than $7. Now it trends over $10.

[pwd72s]

Waiting for somebody to point out that hookers & blow cost less...

I agree track days have gotten way more expensive of late, but I wouldn't blame the reduced or free rate given the instructors. Track rental in our area has gone up dramatically, to the point where we have to do track days on weekdays because weekends are prohibitively expensive. I suspect insurance increases also play a big role.

On a typical track day, I get two students to instruct out of four run groups. That means if I drive my own sessions, I run three out of four sessions, 4 times a day, for a total of 12 on-track sessions in a day. When something has to give (if I get dehydrated, for example), I skip one of my sessions--never a student's session. Plus, I always have the added excitement of not knowing if some rookie in a new 911TT is gonna kill me. It's a real possibility--had a roll over a few years back, and have seen several instructors get hurt. One even of killed this year at CMP, I believe.

Don't get me wrong--I love instructing (been at it for 10 years), but I think I earn whatever reduced rate I might get. If I didn't get a break on price, I doubt I or a lot of other guys would do it.

It's an expensive sport!

[Porschephile944]

Originally Posted by Z-man

T...Granted, as an instructor, the track fees are less, but I suspect that a typical instructor (who trailers a more-expensive-to-maintain sports car) will wind up paying more for a DE event than a student....

Not to take this off Deschodt's topic, but is your average instructor someone who wouldn't be showing up if it wasn't for the reduced entry fee? For example someone who usually races but uses the extra track time to test different setups or equipment. You'll have to excuses the ignorance of the question as I haven't done any DE events I'm just interested if that is generally the case.

[IROC]

Our region used to run 1-day DEs for about $70 back in the day. Instructors paid 1/2 or $35. A tank of gas and $35 and I could run a whole track day for less than $75. I went to the track last weekend at an event where instructors get to go for free. I had two students and pretty much worked my butt off, but I still feel a little guilt for not paying anything.

It's all relative, but I remember when a PCA DE at Road Atlanta was $185 for the whole weekend. Even at $300 or whatever it is now, it's worth it. I love track driving!!

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by milt

The Z-man is spot on. We can do weekday track days at Willow Springs for $150 but that's just the first check you write. No more for me.

I'll probably do one more with my Subie (still bone stock) just because my g/f has never gone at-speed, and that may be it. I never did add up all my receipts, but in 4+ years of tracking my car I burned through probably $60K. So much for a down payment on a house post divorce. But I really don't have any regrets - it was a total *blast* and I met some great people and had some great times.

Originally Posted by Porschephile944

Not to take this off Deschodt's topic, but is your average instructor someone who wouldn't be showing up if it wasn't for the reduced entry fee? For example someone who usually races but uses the extra track time to test different setups or equipment. You'll have to excuses the ignorance of the question as I haven't done any DE events I'm just interested if that is generally the case.

It's a fair question, but about three quarters of the guys I instruct with don't race. I don't any more, though I used to.

And I don't want to overstate the burden on instructors--we do it because we get a kick out of it, and it's also, I believe, an important way to give back to the P-car community.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by nostatic

I'll probably do one more with my Subie (still bone stock) just because my g/f has never gone at-speed, and that may be it. I never did add up all my receipts, but in 4+ years of tracking my car I burned through probably $60K. So much for a down payment on a house post divorce. But I really don't have any regrets - it was a total *blast* and I met some great people and had some great times.

Proportionate to your salary vs. mine, I'd say we're on even ground AFA expenses go. I think you met more interesting people than I did, though.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by Porschephile944

Not to take this off Deschodt's topic, but is your average instructor someone who wouldn't be showing up if it wasn't for the reduced entry fee? For example someone who usually races but uses the extra track time to test different setups or equipment. You'll have to excuses the ignorance of the question as I haven't done any DE events I'm just interested if that is generally the case.

Originally Posted by madcorgi

It's a fair question, but about three quarters of the guys I instruct with don't race. I don't any more, though I used to.

And I don't want to overstate the burden on instructors--we do it because we get a kick out of it, and it's also, I believe, an important way to give back to the P-car community.

Spot on with all the points.

I'd say the ratio in my region is about the same with PCA, and with the other car clubs I've instructed with, there's probably less club racers out there in the instructor groups. I don't club race, though I do plan on jumping into that venue someday...

There are those who club race that use DE's as a means of getting familiar with an unknown track, but they also understand the rules of DE and won't push the boundaries.

Would I show up at a DE and instruct if my fees were the same as a student? Well, it would be less appealing, but that depends on the club, the track, and the level of instruction that is expected of me. Want me to run a couple of sessions with an advanced driver? Sure - I'll pay the same fee. Want me to spend the whole event with 2 green students? I expect they'd throw me a bone and discount my track fee.

To be perfectly honest -- I enjoy instructing -- almost as much as I enjoy driving on the track. There's something very satisfying knowing that you were able to effectively help a driver learn about this craft which everyone thinks they have already mastered. I've taken rides with former students after they have progressed up the ranks -- and it is neat to see how they have progressed, and it is neat to know that I may have had something to do with their progress.

Oh - as for costs -- I estimate my track expenses for a typical 2-day event to be somewhere between $500 and $1000 per event, when I factor in all of the variables. I've heard some of the hardcore folks are probably closer t othe $2000 per 2 day event mark.

-Z-man.

Originally Posted by Z-man

To be perfectly honest -- I enjoy instructing -- almost as much as I enjoy driving on the track. There's something very satisfying knowing that you were able to effectively help a driver learn about this craft which everyone thinks they have already mastered. I've taken rides with former students after they have progressed up the ranks -- and it is neat to see how they have progressed, and it is neat to know that I may have had something to do with their progress.

Z-man,

I've been at this long enough that several guys I had as first time rookie students are now instructors themselves. (Not to mention way better drivers than me.) One such guy was my 22-yo daughter's instructor at a recent event. Talk about karma or something!

[Zeke]

Yes, racing the lowly go karts when entries were $30 for race day, I figured 200 for each day, ea kart (we usually had 2).

Now, I'd bet that could be between 500 and a grand per day. Tires are 50 bucks ea.

Nice if you could get p-car tires for 50 skins.

[A930Rocket]

Ihave friends that instruct and they deserve the free entry fee fir what they do all weekend. As mentioned, they can have 2 students and running their car makes a full day. Problem with the car? Fix it between student sessions. Can't fix it? Stay until the end or your students are signed off.

That said, $250-300 for the 2-3 day weekend has been typical. Add in hotel, tow vehicle gas, race gas at $7.50, food, slicks, car expendables and it adds up.

[89911]

Lets see. A typical track weekend. Entrance fee-$300-350, Hotel-$100 (usually split 2 days), Gas-$300(travel and at the track), Food $100, Wear and Tear (Brakes, Tires, etc) ?? Talking around $800-900 for the weekend. .

And that's if nothing breaks!

[ODDJOB UNO]

hey where else can ya have more fun? i got invited down to INDE in wilcox,az. a private track. gonna cost me $200 for 1 day and $300 for 2 days. plus gas for tow rig/beer/room/food and as i always go out the door saying a prayer "it will cost nothing for the car IF it doesnt break.


it is spendy, its alot of fun, and if you go to alot of races like us and just take pictures.....................sooner or later ya just have to get back in the drivers seat. it never fails.


walking away is hard to do.


i figure it this way for this juan: i was invited, its private, aint gonna be nojuan around to feek me up except me, its wayyyyyyyyyy nicer than PIR and firebird, and its a really well thought out demanding track.


so what the hell, ya only live once. gonna try and take my (2) sons along and go have some fun.

[ODDJOB UNO]

and one other thang. from the last time we went to calif mtr speedway/pir and firebird, i had a bunch of pictures taken of my car(me) that i stuffed in the bat cave.


there is NOTHING better than hearing from somejuan new, with my p-car sitting there, and them looking at the pics asking...................


"IS THAT YOU?" and you just nod yer head real cool, and crack another beer and start bench racing.


"when i was a young lil whippersnapper we used to.......... when we was younger and wez used to race..............blah blah................always good times.



and a hell of alot of memories.

[Rob Channell]

Costs are not all that has changed. When I first started in 89-90 timeframe some of our events were $25 for members and $35 for non-members. If you did not go off the track or lose it at least once during each session you were not trying hard enough. Now they have all the 2-3 spins or offs and you go home...period. I do tend to not color outside the lines as much as I used to.

Now the track rental has gone up almost an order of magnitude and the insurance costs are sky high (dang lawyers and insurance compaines, can't we just set up a few situations where we can all choose to accept the risk and cut them out of the loop?)

Oh well, until there is something better I'll keep doing it.

I do enjoy instructing but a weekend would be waaaaay easier to not do it. If I got no discount, I'd probably skip it and focus on my own driving. At the instructor school this last weekend I had another instructor in the car pretending to be a student (a really bad student). Turns out he used to race SCCA and earned himself the nickname "Crash". It was a trial by fire type exercise to prepare instructors for the unexpected. I think instructing is a lot like driving. If you don't do it often enough you start to get rusty.