5 car chain collision

[nota]

my kid in my 740 volvo was in the middle of a 5 car chain collision
1/2 a block from the house
the first 4 cars all stopped on a busy 2 lane street nose to tail but no hits
then a second later the 5th a ford SUV hit number 4 a chevy SUV hard
and pushed #4 into my volvo hard it set off the volvo's airbag and bent the car a bit
my kid has a minor whiplash injury sore neck but X-ray said no bone or major problems
my volvo was pushed into the two front cars but no visible damage to them
or injury reported by the others
strangely for miami everyone had valid ins lic and tags
so only #5 got a ticket

but who pays for my damage #4 who hit/was pushed into my car
or #5 who caused the accident

any one got a dealers book value on a 1990 volvo 740 with 89k miles
as with the airbag replacement and frame/unibody damage it will likely be totaled
trunk will not latch nor will the passenger rear door and the car pulls to the right

[Zeke]

Usually you pay for the car in front of you. You are responsible, right or wrong, to stop back far enough so this doesn't happen. That's not the real world, I know.

But, you shouldn't have to worry about any of this. Turn all the info into your ins co and let them do their job. If they decide no. 5 pays for all, then great. Either way, whether 4 or 5 pays your damages, you get paid. If you sue, you sue them all.

[legion]

It depends on your state laws, and I'm not sure what they are for Florida.

Either #5 pays for all, or #4 pays you and you pay #3.

IMO, #5 should pay all. I understand the logic of #5 pays #4, #4 pays #3 and so on, and it should apply when you are moving, but if you have stopped and managed to not cause a crash, it should all be on the party that caused the whole incident. Sure, it's easy to space out enough so that only #4 gets hit by #5 if #5 is doing 30 mph, but what if #5 is doing 90 mph? Should you have to account for that kind of spacing?

[red-beard]

My wife was in a similar accident in San Diego. #5's insurance should pay for all damage. The problem is, his insurance may not be sufficient.

My wife was car #1, making a left turn, waiting for traffic to clear on a 4 lane street. 2 cars behind her and 4th car (large SUV) rammed #3. #3 accordion-ed, #2 front and rear damage, my wife, minor bumper damage.

Yes #4 was a teenage girl on a cell phone. This was Ingram St in Pacific Beach, for any that know the area. Her (parents) insurance payed.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by legion

It depends on your state laws, and I'm not sure what they are for Florida.

Either #5 pays for all, or #4 pays you and you pay #3.

IMO, #5 should pay all. I understand the logic of #5 pays #4, #4 pays #3 and so on, and it should apply when you are moving, but if you have stopped and managed to not cause a crash, it should all be on the party that caused the whole incident. Sure, it's easy to space out enough so that only #4 gets hit by #5 if #5 is doing 30 mph, but what if #5 is doing 90 mph? Should you have to account for that kind of spacing?

You are correct in all your assumptions but assumptions are not law. What happens is that someone contests whether all were absolutely stopped. You can't prove that ever, so it just goes to a default ruling. You can't assign a speed cutoff either. No difference between 30 and 90 except for the additional charge of reckless driving.

In that scenario, the rest of it would be decided in civil court.

[WolfeMacleod]

Originally Posted by red-beard

My wife was in a similar accident in San Diego. #5's insurance should pay for all damage. The problem is, his insurance may not be sufficient.

How strange. It was only a few days ago that i was talking to my girlfriend about just this sort of incident, after seeing that her Property Liability limits were only $10,000. I suggested she up it to 50, or even 100, because just this sort of thing could happen... and if they don't cover it all, yer SOL if they go after you personally.

[island911]

Originally Posted by nota

....
the first 4 cars all stopped on a busy 2 lane street nose to tail..

Well how are people supposed to be able to text when that kind of stuff is going on?

Originally Posted by milt

You are correct in all your assumptions but assumptions are not law. ....

seriously?

Anyway, #5's insurance company will likely pay it all . .. unless those policy limits are exceeded.

If all are insured, the insurance co's will sort it out.

[nota]

also oddly for miami it was a older white American guy who hit the other cars
no drinking texting or cell use involved
as the first two cars had only lite scratches on their bumpers
only our volvo and the chevy SUV #4 will have major claims against #5's ins
so limits should not be exceeded even if he has minimum coverage

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by island911

seriously?

Anyway, #5's insurance company will likely pay it all . .. unless those policy limits are exceeded.

If all are insured, the insurance co's will sort it out.

So, you're gonna bust my chops like tabs. I'll make this assumption then, you're in tabs class.

Back to the discussion. There is no way to accurately determine whether a car in line is moving or not. Doesn't have to be moving much. This is very subjective issue. There are so many scenarios that the default settlement is each pays for the one in front of him.

Settlements vary according to testimony if it gets that far. Here is a question/answer page with a couple of attorneys weighing in. I like the last one as probably being what happens most:
"Yes you must keep a safe enough distance to stop if need be (when stopped as well). I usually go after everyone behind my client and let the chips fall where they may."

Note: I added the words in the parenthesis.

[island911]

Originally Posted by milt

So, you're gonna bust my chops like tabs.....

Funny, I was wondering why you were busting on Chris/legion's post. ... talking down to him with the comment "but assumptions are not law."

...and, no; I am not "gonna bust [your] chops like tabs." ...I bust his completely differently.


Back to the topic... I have been BTDT in proceedings (thru the whole process) with multiple client's lawyers, representing three different ins co's, for a multiple rear-end collisions, like Nota describes. IIRC, the big POS Chevy Tahoe that started the plow exceeded policy limits in damages, which had the other ins co's liable for the rest.

But, again, the bigger point is, the insurance companies will likely sort it out. YMMV, depending on the ins co, and the lawyer you, or other party hires.

[Hugh R]

A friend of mine is an attorney for LA Water and Power, he says you should have at least $25,000 in property damage insurance. If you hit a light pole, they'll go after you to the tune of greater than $10,000 for replacement, and they lien people who don't have the $ or insurance every day.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by island911

Funny, I was wondering why you were busting on Chris/legion's post. ... talking down to him with the comment "but assumptions are not law."

Ah, I'll have to try harder to understand PPOT speak. I was NOT talking down to him in my mind. I liked his logic. Most of the time, there isn't much logic in the law.

Can we agree that, at best, these multi rear enders are difficult to sort out?

[teenerted1]

when i first started driving i had something like this too. i was #3 in the 5 car pile up...if i remember right #1 took #5 to court. i had to give a deposition...i dont remember my insurance having to pay any one. long before everyone had a cell phone...just a stupid inattentive driver caused it all.

there would have been no way to prove my beater old bug didnt have previous damage so i didnt have to make a claim.

[Laneco]

Originally Posted by WolfeMacleod

How strange. It was only a few days ago that i was talking to my girlfriend about just this sort of incident, after seeing that her Property Liability limits were only $10,000. I suggested she up it to 50, or even 100, because just this sort of thing could happen... and if they don't cover it all, yer SOL if they go after you personally.

If she hits a high-end motorhome, lightly, and it catches fire (propane on board), burns to the ground, then kiss $300,000 goodbye. 10K is woefully inadequate for property liability. I think Oregon is 50K min and we've got 100K. The difference was about $3 a month.

angela

[Jagshund]

Glad your son is doing relatively well- all things considered.

Funny story- I had a couple in an IROC dive under the rear bumper of my '72 El Camino after being hit by a guy in a Celica (he was looking for a phone on the floor). All parties were fine (we talked for nearly an hour in the street) but nearly three years later I was subpoenaed as a witness.

The couple was trying to claim ~ $1M in damages since the accident due to mental trauma, physical disabilities, etc. Their attorney even tried to corner me beforehand to make sure I would testify about the intensity of the accident- I told him to *&#$ off but he brought up that I had written that I was "rammed in the rear" on the incident report (I had- how many times can you get away with that??) The judge dismissed the $1M and the couple had to settle for about $20K after I testified that the accident was so minor that I still had the same bumper on my car and it was parked down the street from the courthouse if the jury wanted to take a look at it; it was bowed in maybe .5" in the center but the chrome hadn't been scratched.

The a&&**** attorney looked shellshocked; I think I skipped back to the car.

[legion]

Originally Posted by Laneco

If she hits a high-end motorhome, lightly, and it catches fire (propane on board), burns to the ground, then kiss $300,000 goodbye. 10K is woefully inadequate for property liability. I think Oregon is 50K min and we've got 100K. The difference was about $3 a month.

angela

I'd go even further. If you don't want your life turned upside down because of an accident, get the maximum coverage you can purchase. Then get an umbrella (personal liability) policy on top of that. (You generally have to max auto coverage before an umbrella policy is offered.)

And here's a little secret, the people who tend to max their coverage and get umbrella policies tend to be the lowest risk drivers. And the lowest risk drivers get the lowest rates. You will often find that you can increase coverage substantially for a minimum increase in premiums, and that your premiums might even go down with more coverage. (Gasp!)

Conversely, people who buy only minimum coverage are generally the highest-risk drivers, and they get the highest rates.

So yes, the coverage you pick can affect your rates, because even that is an indicator of risk.

(The medical bills add up quick when it's a bus full of disabled kids you hit, and the jury generally doesn't buy that the bus cut you off and slammed on the brakes, even if it did happen that way.)

[nota]

on a good note gieco who is #5's ins corp will cover my damage
but they only have 10k total damage coverage
if #1 and #2 who had very little impact [bumper lite scratches] donot file claims
and they have not yet filed
#4 who had the worst, both front and rear impacts on a 07 mid sized chevy SUV
and has filed a claim so it depends on his repair costs
I have not yet talked to #4 ins corp to see if they will cover if the total goes over 10k