enforceable consequences

As long as we're on the subject of child rearing, never negotiate with a kid. Never say anything like "well, if you do this, then I'll do that, or I'll give you something". Evil ex SIL did that with her 3 kids and they turned into the 3 laziest, shiftless, good for nothings, always expecting something to be done for them.

Once again, we may have been separated at birth, JYL.

My children know we love them, have their best interest in mind. I make sure, every day, they hear "I love you".

And, they know I mean it, as do I, from them on phone messages when they tell me.

Kids are easy, parenting is not.

Mike, expect things from them...

I'm not saying this works in every family or for every kid, but FWIW when my kids (who are the same age as yours) whine to the point where I can't stand it, I send them to their room. If they don't go by themselves, I physically pick them up and carry them there. I make sure they understand why I'm upset with them. They can come out when they stop whining.

+1or 2 I guess as I have 2 kids. 1 of which is right now whispering in my ear VERY CLOSELY 'Dad, pleeeeeeeeaase can we watch anaconda videos now?".

We have a standing rule in our house: "We do not negotiate with terrorists."

SmileWavy

Sounds like our pediatrician. He told us he had NEVER seen a child come in malnourished from not eating good food that was put in front of them.

I occasionally remind my children that they are only three days away from eating what a dog would eat. It's kind of a household saying for food whiners that caught on. I like the two choice option......Here's dinner. Eat it or don't.

Plant a vegetable garden with him. Show him where food comes from.
And he will love to eat any vegetable straight out of the ground.

Done it. Didn't work.

Mike, just curious, does he quit whining when you get up and leave the table?

When I personally or when we all are done and leave but he's still sitting there having not eaten anything because he's too busy goofing off, whining or pouting?

There have been times where I have given myself a timeout and just left the table. He still misbehaves but I'm not sure if it is more or less.

In retrospect I should not have contained this thread to dinner time alone. My son seems to be going through a testing phase - he's testing his boundaries and my wife and I set them hard (through discussion).

We took some bits from this discussion like rules:

1) If you ask for something we will consider it.
2) If whine the answer is 'no'.
3) If you have a tantrum the answer is 'no' and you get consequences.

The #1 thing we're trying to do is be consistent and not accept the behavior at all. We're just not sure we've been that way in the past.

He's been spending a lot of time on his bed in timeout. He has had most of his toys taken away as well. He has to go two days tantrum free to get them back. Its only been a few days but he hasn't even come close. I'm not sure if we're being too hard on him. It's rough because I feel like we're always coming down on him. We don't have 'good times' at home lately because of the way he behaves.

I have sympathy for him because he probably sees how we treat his brother, who is in a very cooperative stage and has been mildly sick for the last week and getting extra attention. This most likely brings out some jealousy which I can understand since I have a little brother who was the epitome of Eddie Haskell. Perfect in front of the parents - pinching me when they weren't looking. :D

We are looking for a counselor to go to for some additional guidance.

Obviously I'm not there in your household, but in mine (with kids 2 & 5), there's no way they'd be able to hold out 2 days with perfect behavior. I just don't think they have that big picture ability to see 2 days into the future and rationalize their behavior accordingly.

My wife once turned to me and asked: Can you imagine what it must be like to cry every day of yor life? She wasn't referring just to tantrums and misbehavior, but all the other reasons why little kids cry: your ice cream falls off the cone, your kid sister knocks over your tower of blocks, you bump your knee on the ladder up to the slide, etc. Yeah all those things suck, but were they to happen to you (as an adult), you wouldn't cry. They just have different brains at that point in their lives.

Not saying that makes it OK to whine to the point where there's family disharmony, but kids' brains work differently than those of (most) adults.

almost...allllllmoooossst.. want to have a few kids, simply so i can use this line!! this is very funny.

my mom fed me like i feed a dog. put food down, give it a preset time limit, pick it up. i learned to eat everything. quick or hungry. now i'm getting fat. damn it!

I have shared your pain Mike. I have a 7 year old daughter, and a 4 year old son. The rule at our house is if you complain about anything on the table, you don't eat. Period. My son would say some of the exact same stuff yours says. I instantly stand up, and he gets to get helped to the corner, no toys while we eat. Typically he apologizes, and comes back to the table and eats everything. I can only think of two occasions where he didn't get any dinner.

If that doesn't work, I just use the dog shock collar on him.

I was a picky eater. My son is a picky eater.
Having gone through that, it isn't by choice. The brain has certain natural instincts and what food can be eaten without the brain objecting and making you gag is not something that is easily controllable.
BUT ,,, it can be controlled and manipulated with work over time.
Work with your son, talk about it, understand how he feels and what he is going through.
You are not going to be successful if you try to force him to eat things his brain says not to eat.
Explain the benefits of eating different things, explain the pitfalls of not being able to eat some things, and let him know you are going to help him. He needs to understand you are on his side and aren't the bad guy trying to force him to do something that makes him sick.
If you say yes and his brain says no, you will lose.

Then set out a strategy. Ask him how a food makes him feel. It isn't always about taste. I love the taste of onions but biting into a piece of raw onion will make me hurl to this day. It's the texture, the feeling that makes my brain say no freaking way, get that outa here.

Ask him how something he likes makes him feel. Help him to learn to control that feeling and help him learn to modify it.
It takes a long time and can be really frustrating.
Some folks think it's easier to wait until he gets older but I think you need to start laying the foundation now.

EDIT, but if he's just being a PITA and won't eat because he's a brat, take him out behind the wood shed ;)

I have no kids so I know nothing... but I love this advice... it is what I would do!

That is a pretty good insight by your wife.

Only makes things harder though eh?

Again, I'm not trying to force him to eat. I just want him to shut up unless he has something nice to say. =-) I feel the same way you do about onions only with strawberries. Love the taste - hate the texture.

and the beat goes on, was going back and reading this thread and wondering if we have made any progress. I think that we have made progress. I think that we go in cycles with the boy at dinner time. We remember that he's really picky and just put in front of him things that will not require a fight. He does have a variety of foods he will eat and it doesn't end up in my being a short order cook. Then after a while we forget the general direction we're using and slide back into the make him eat what we eat phase until we remember - oh yeah! We're not doing that! and we go back to the original plan. The cycle starts over.

Actually at dinner things have gotten better and I think they are as close to normal with that one as they are going to get. His little brother is an f'ing saint - eats whatever I put in front of him nearly and almost always asks for more...

Now there are different problems but the same behaviors. Tantrums...

We did get some help, we see a counselor every 2 weeks or so. It's a little bit of not enough for my tastes and I'm not sure it's helping.

the kid's just so damned intense...
I'll start another thread.

A little progress in our home but it's not Norman Rockwell. Some days are good, others not so good.

I've learned to deal with the situation better but nothing magic happened.:(

A pyschologist told me that it's a "journey" and the best that you can do is YOUR best and repeat.