OMFG! Visual estimate of speed is enough for a conviction.

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

Quote:

COLUMBUS, Ohio – A simple educated guess that a motorist is speeding is all the evidence a police officer needs to write an ironclad speeding ticket, the Ohio Supreme Court ruled on Wednesday.
In a 5-to-1 ruling, the court said an officer's "unaided visual estimation of a vehicle's speed" is strong enough to support a ticket and conviction. A radar speed detector, commonly used by patrolmen, is not needed, the court concluded.

Police officer's visual estimate of speed is enough for a conviction, Ohio Supreme Court rules | cleveland.com

sammyg2 · 06-08-2010, 04:13 PM

That's the way it was for many, many years before they had radar.

David · David's Garage

I'm sure I've posted this story before but it fits:

Back when I was in the Datsun Z club, our president was driving through New Mexico on his way to the national convention in Colorado. As he crested a hill he saw a state trooper writing a ticket. As he passed, the trooper jumped in his car and pulled him over. The trooper said he was going to write him a ticket for 75 in a 65. My buddy, being the friendly guy that he is, mentioned that he saw the trooper standing outside his car and wondered how he could determine his speed without radar. The trooper said when you've been doing this as long as he had, you could determine speed visually. My buddy said OK and took the ticket. After telling the story he told us he couldn't have been doing less than 120 when he crested the hill

And another one:

I was coming up on a known speed trap in Austin doing about 70 in a 30 zone (there were no cross streets, pedestrians, etc.) My view was blocked by an ambulance up ahead and sure enough when the ambulance cleared, there was a motorcycle cop standing there with radar gun in hand. I grabbed all the front brake I could and got it within a reasonable speed quickly. Of course he motioned me over so I pulled right up to him and sat motionless for couple seconds before putting a foot down. We talked for a few minutes then he said he could tell I knew how to ride and admitted I decelerated so fast he couldn't get a radar reading. He wrote me a ticket for 40 in a 30 saying he would have no problem getting that to stick. BTW, the case took 2 years to go to court and was finally thrown out after the prosecutor's bluff that the they were ready didn't faze me

Capt. Crunch · 06-08-2010, 08:49 PM

Bs!

trekkor · 06-08-2010, 09:00 PM

Speeders blast past my house every day. 80, 90, 105+ mph
It's not hard to estimate a speeder vs. a non speeder. ( esp. when the speed limit is 45 mph )

( take it to the track )

KT

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

Easy to estimate egregious speed violations (20, 30, 40+ mph over). Not so easy to estimate 5, 10 mph over which I'll bet dollars to donuts are going to be where the bulk of tickets written under this perversion of justice will be.

Ohio has adopted the model of New Rome, which it was so outraged and disgusted with only a few short years ago. I guess they realize that the town of New Rome had quite a nice little cash cow going there and wants to emulate it.

VINMAN · 06-09-2010, 04:14 AM

I got a speeding ticket two yrs ago, based on a cops visual estimate. Hate to say it, but he was dead on.

m21sniper · 06-09-2010, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Easy to estimate egregious speed violations (20, 30, 40+ mph over). Not so easy to estimate 5, 10 mph over which I'll bet dollars to donuts are going to be where the bulk of tickets written under this perversion of justice will be

Yep.

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

Understood that some are probably good estimators...

...but where this gets scary is a conviction that's based on "He looked guilty"

vash · vash's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by trekkor

Speeders blast past my house every day. 80, 90, 105+ mph
It's not hard to estimate a speeder vs. a non speeder. ( esp. when the speed limit is 45 mph )

( take it to the track )

KT

yea, but this arguement turns to krap..once you need to nail down a specific fine associated with a certian speed.

this is total crap. burden of proof is on the cops..

trekkor · 06-09-2010, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VINMAN

I got a speeding ticket two yrs ago, based on a cops visual estimate. Hate to say it, but he was dead on.

I would think that if you spent several afternoons on the side of the road with a radar gun, you would be able to get pretty good at estimating speed as well.

KT

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

True, but would you accept a conviction from a cop based on "It looked like you were doing 61 in a 55" ?

vash · vash's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by trekkor

I would think that if you spent several afternoons on the side of the road with a radar gun, you would be able to get pretty good at estimating speed as well.

KT

there is no way, especially if the car is heading directly away from or towards the psychic cop.

no one can visually mark off distance and time exactly. BS.

trekkor · 06-09-2010, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstreit

True, but would you accept a conviction from a cop based on "It looked like you were doing 61 in a 55" ?

If I was speeding, I would accept it.
I'll not fight a ticket if I am in the wrong.

KT

trekkor · 06-09-2010, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vash

there is no way, especially if the car is heading directly away from or towards the psychic cop.

no one can visually mark off distance and time exactly. BS.

In front of my house, it's really easy to tell the difference between a car or motorcycle that is speeding or not.

If you can't tell, they're not speeding.

I can estimate the lap times from T2 at Sears after watching the car do a couple laps within about 5 seconds... Consistently.

As I type, I just heard a truck go by the house. I could tell, just by the sound, that he was speeding!

KT

Overpaid Slacker · 06-09-2010, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyg2

That's the way it was for many, many years before they had radar.

True, and they used to treat ailments with leeches. We used to have trials based on evidentiary standards much different from what we use today. We've moved on and technology has made the prior standards obsolete.

You want your dentistry done by the standards of the 1850s? They had dentists back then. How about the 1950s? 1970s?

JP

cgarr · cgarr's Garage

On some of our roads around me they had so many speeders that they finally raised the speed limit. I did my part to get it raised!

vash · vash's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by trekkor

In front of my house, it's really easy to tell the difference between a car or motorcycle that is speeding or not.

If you can't tell, they're not speeding.

I can estimate the lap times from T2 at Sears after watching the car do a couple laps within about 5 seconds... Consistently.

As I type, I just heard a truck go by the house. I could tell, just by the sound, that he was speeding!

KT

fine, but you shouldnt be able to tack an exact fine using whatever mental voodoo method you have bouncing about in your head. why dont race officials just hire out gifted guys like you

to call out the winner at race events?
"winner! by (give or take) 5 seconds!!!" call me old fashioned..i think speeding fines should be more of an exact science.

it WOULD be fun at the olympics.."trekker calls it! the german bobsled appears to be the fastest, and therefore is GOLD!!!""" horray!!
please..

sorry, i'm effen pissy today.

TerryBPP · 06-09-2010, 11:51 AM

Same as if a cop saw you steal a candy bar and eat it. His word is the law, regardless of the validity.

enzo1 · 06-09-2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

True, and they used to treat ailments with leeches. We used to have trials based on evidentiary standards much different from what we use today. We've moved on and technology has made the prior standards obsolete.

You want your dentistry done by the standards of the 1850s? They had dentists back then. How about the 1950s? 1970s?

and insurance was cheap...