For those of you who've been thru an acrimonious divorce...lawyer's deskside manner?

Dueller · 04:11 PM

Bash lawyer's all you want, but I'd like some input from those of you who've been thru a contested divorce. Would you think your lawyer was out of line if he gave detailed practical/personal advice about how to get thru your divorce? I.e., if your lawyer saw something that is going to create a mess beyond legal ramifications or if he knew a paramour was using you, would you want him to tell you?

Or wuld you only want to have your lawyer deal with purely legal matters?

Case in point...say I have a prospective client who is being used by a third party and he doesn't even see it. The information I have is rock solid. And this third person is going to cost him a chit pile of money in his divorce if he doesn't nip it in the bud in the short term.

Or say you see a client that is all gaga over a new love interest during the divorce and you see the train wreck about to happen...already talking about remarrying etc. And it threatens your ability to get him a fair deal...do you tell him? Would you want to know? Or overstepping bounds?

m21sniper · 06-02-2010, 04:25 PM

I would want my lawyer to be completely, 100% bluntly honest with me.

But that is just how i roll.

wreckersteve · 06-02-2010, 04:25 PM

Ask him if he wants your opinion on that matter.

imcarthur · imcarthur's Garage

Agree with both above but tread carefully.

Ian

Danimal16 · 06-02-2010, 04:29 PM

Dueller,

I have gone through two divorces. Knowing what i know now, I should have tried harder with the first one, it took the second one to show me the error of my ways.

But back on topic. If he is a friend tell him, it is how you are going to stage it that will make the difference with him. But let me throw in a curve ball and it is based on how well you know him. Does he have sisters that you are friendly with? If so you may want to consider sharing this with them and get their opinion. It is very dicey thing to do and only you would know if this is a possibility. I have found that sisters are ruthless in judging other women when it comes to brothers. Also, sisters pick up things intuitivly that we guys are usually clueless about.

As for an attorney giving other than legal advice, I would guess it would come down to the liability and relationship between the attorney and the client. It would not bother me and I must say that although I would have done things different on the legal end, like fight like an SOB, my attorney did get me recalibrated outside of his official duties during that awful time.

For me, if a good friend came to me with proof, well I sure would be hurt if it told me something that was a betrayel by someone I fully trusted, i.e. wife. Heck I might even be upset with my friend, if I was younger. But knowing what I know now I would realize that my friend giving me such tough to handle information is looking out for me and I would VERIFY what my friend gave me for my own sake. I look at it this way, if a friend is a true friend, it is tested when he has nothing to gain other than looking out for me. Hope that makes sense.

DanB

legion · 06-02-2010, 04:32 PM

Yep. This could also turn into trouble for you.

Do you think this person (these people) would respond well to such advice, or will it just make your job more difficult?

You could always say something along the lines of: "I've handled my share of divorce cases and there are a few things I've seen over the years that could make this easier on you. I understand that you are paying me strictly for legal advice, but there are few other things I've noticed if you'd like my advice on some non-legal subjects..."

pwd72s · 06-02-2010, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m21sniper

I would want my lawyer to be completely, 100% bluntly honest with me.

But that is just how i roll.

Exactly...after all, what are you paying a lawyer for? In my book, that would be his time, and his advice.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

I would pay serious attention to any lawyer who does divorce for a living and thinks I'm setting myself up for another or worse one. But then that's me. I have a tendency to expect voluminous and candid advice from someone I'm paying for it.

Ask him if he wants to be a repeat customer or not.

Zeke · 06-02-2010, 05:11 PM

Help me understand. Your client is getting a divorce so I assume he's legally separated from his wife. From than point on, how can he hurt his own case?

Seems to me that if he wants to engage in hookers and blow every night, he's free to do so. Tell me the rest if you can.

Otherwise, I'd say be a lawyer first. In the long run, you get the most respect for doing your job and only your job as well as you can perform. You'd be my legal counsel if you weren't trying to be my counselor.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

Thankfully I have a solid marriage and neither my wife nor I believe in divorce. With any luck we will not ever need such services. However (as a realist) I have studied the situations of friends, family members and acquaintances who have been down this road and the pattern I've clearly identified is that the lawyers typically bill hourly and know it. The services are often tailored to "run the clock" as much as possible thereby driving up fees and prolonging the agony.

I guess the best advice I'd want to hear from a divorce lawyer is an up-front, minimum-hassle way to "buy out" the other party and make it as quick, clean and permanent as possible. No strings, no hassles, no lingering unresolved issues and no recommendations to fight for this, that and the other thing which drags it on for months and months and months (while the meter is running, naturally).

Just my $0.02. Situation/mileage may vary.

Zeke · 06-02-2010, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Thankfully I have a solid marriage and neither my wife nor I believe in divorce. With any luck we will not ever need such services. However (as a realist) I have studied the situations of friends, family members and acquaintances who have been down this road and the pattern I've clearly identified is that the lawyers typically bill hourly and know it. The services are often tailored to "run the clock" as much as possible thereby driving up fees and prolonging the agony.

I guess the best advice I'd want to hear from a divorce lawyer is an up-front, minimum-hassle way to "buy out" the other party and make it as quick, clean and permanent as possible. No strings, no hassles, no lingering unresolved issues and no recommendations to fight for this, that and the other thing which drags it on for months and months and months (while the meter is running, naturally).

Just my $0.02. Situation/mileage may vary.

Can't argue with that.

stomachmonkey · 06-02-2010, 05:21 PM

My lawyer and I have a deal.

I pay her to watch out for my best interests.

She has broached some touchy subjects with me. I'm totally cool with it.

Zeke · 06-02-2010, 05:30 PM

More on "touchy subjects" accompanied with pics.

GWN7 · 06-02-2010, 05:50 PM

Your client is paying you for your advise. You have gone thru more divorces than they have and would be remiss if you didn't at least offer them your years of experence in this matter.

Ask them if they want the advise. If they say no at least you tryed.

People only listen to what they want to hear.

My divorce lawer told me up front, "if you two fight, I make money"......He took his family to Palm Springs that winter.....

MBAtarga · 06:36 PM

If my lawyer was not telling me everything he could to prevent additional complications, I'd surely be pissed!

Edit: never been divorced, but that's how I feel about it.

Moses · 06-02-2010, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m21sniper

I would want my lawyer to be completely, 100% bluntly honest with me.

But that is just how i roll.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wreckersteve

Ask him if he wants your opinion on that matter.

These sum up my thoughts.

Also, there's that subtle difference between counsel and advice. He needs one, but may not accept the other.

Dueller · 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milt

Help me understand. Your client is getting a divorce so I assume he's legally separated from his wife. From than point on, how can he hurt his own case?

Seems to me that if he wants to engage in hookers and blow every night, he's free to do so. Tell me the rest if you can.

Otherwise, I'd say be a lawyer first. In the long run, you get the most respect for doing your job and only your job as well as you can perform. You'd be my legal counsel if you weren't trying to be my counselor.

There is no such animal as legal separation in my state, although most judges here do make some concessions to post-physical separation behavior/acts as opposed to marital transgressions before separation. IOW it ain't over til the fat lady judge signs the final decree.

I see common situations along these lines: Client (male or female) decides they want a divorce. They have a friend who has been supportive of them in coming to the decision. Client takes the step. Then that relationship begins to blossom. But for whatever reason you see that in all liklihood their confidant is an opportunist. Client runs the serious possibility that that relationship will become an issue in the divorce that may have a serious impact on the financial outcome of the divorce.

crustychief · crustychief's Garage

When I got my divorce there was a " rebound relationship" and my lawyer pointed out what I think you are trying to fish out. She said something to the effect that it wasn't legal advice, but pertained to my divorce and financial future. She basically told me to stay lonely and "take matters into my own hands" for a while.

MRM · 03:01 AM

Dueller, you are both an attorney and counselor at law. You have a duty to advise your client on all aspects, legal and practical, of their situation. You want to explain it to the client very early. Do it as soon after the initial client interview as possible and while you're still mapping out the strategy and cause/effect of various options he has.

You want to map it out to him as black and white as possible. Take it like this. You've probably already had the initial client interview where you mapped out all the tasks that need to be completed, your strategy and expected budget. So you've probably already given him a speech that goes something like this: Bubba, what you got here is a (standard) (complicated) (easy) divorce. It will take one year to get from first filing to final decree. To make sure you are protected and all the property is distributed correctly you can count on doing three motions, two hearings, two evaluations, and hire one GAL. The budget for all of this will be 150 hours in legal expense at X, 50 hours paralegal time at Y and costs of Z. IF you follow my advice and pay my bills on time I'll get you through this as well as possible. There isn't any good way out of your situation, but follow my direction and you'll get out of a bad situation in the least bad way possible.

So you call him back as soon as possible and get him back in for another meeting, off the clock if necessary. Give him an extension of the same speech. You give him options. You tell him that if he had come to you asking for a mean and nasty dragged out divorce, you would have outlined what you would have to do and given him a budget calling for all the crazy stuff you'd have to do. You would have told him that if he went that route he could expect certain reactions from the judge and other side, and could expect a certain result. If he had come in and asked for the quick and easy option, you would have outlined the same strategy plan, budget, and what he could expect. The point being that the positions he takes and the things he does in the context of his divorce will have an impact on the case, and will cost him money.

Once he understands that his decisions will affect the cost and outcome of his case, you finish up with this speech: Likewise, Bubba, you have to know that your relationship with ________ is going to have an effect on your case. Without her in the picture, you can expect the case to go like I described last time, and cost what I told you then. But if you insist on carrying on with ______, it's going to cause a big ruckus and your case is going to go down this road and cost you a lot more because were going to have to deal with this, this and this. It's your choice, but you have to be aware of the effect of your actions. And as you make your decision, you have to understand that in my long experience as an attorney, ________ is not going to be there after the money runs out. I've seen it a thousand times, and the warning signs are there for all to see. She's doing this, this and this. The only reason to do that is to take advantage of you. I don't mind wasting your money and taking up your time if that's what you hire me to do, but as your attorney I have to tell you this is a bad idea and it's going to cost you a lot, both in terms of the divorce and your life.

He might not appreciate the talk now, but he will someday. Even if it costs you the client, you need to lay it all out on the table for him.

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

MY divorce lawyer told me I wasn't allowed to get re-married unless the woman was pregnant...and she was a maternity Nurse Practioner as well as being a lawyer...