Chevy crate 502 w/6speed, reliable?

[ted]

anyone have experience with something like this?
I could be content with a small block, but this project looks interesting.
I was considering a 69 Camaro w/ this drive train, big disc brakes.
Sorry no pics of the car, it had a full restoration and is now only partially assembled.
What about the combo, is it reliable enough to drive almost anywhere?
I need a hobby car that can survive 1000 mile rallies on back roads.
Links to info on this combo welcomed, thanks, new to the V8 stuff.

PS I'd still keep my 911 for track days and club events.
Chuck Miller photo credit.

[crustychief]

Give Pat Donahue a call. (619) 258-0795

He is the guy I was wrenching for right after I retired.

[Rednine11]

Reliable...YES however, a 502 is heavy. a stroker small bock would handle better but if you have to have the big block I'd get aluminum heads and try to reduce weight as much as possible to keep it lighter in the front. Big blocks are a blast in a straight line but not as fun on the twisty back roads..no matter what you do you'll have a blast and don't forget to post pictures.

[kaisen]

If it were me, for open-road racing or rallies, I wouldn't hesitate to do a LS-series all-aluminum small block. They weigh a few hundred pounds less and make darn near the same power. There's a supercharged 7.0L version that makes a very streetable 800+ hp and 800+ ft-lb on 93 octane pump gas. Or, of course, a similar naturally aspirated motor is good for a little under 600 hp. These are endurance motors, not short-lived grenades.

LS small blocks are modern, 502's are old tech

[The Gaijin]

Does the big block with aluminum heads weigh that much more than the LS series? Those big valve covers do look retro cool.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

Does the big block with aluminum heads weigh that much more than the LS series? Those big valve covers do look retro cool.

An all-iron BB weighs about 685 lbs
An iron block / aluminum head BB weighs about 625 lbs (540 crate motor)
An all-aluminum BB weighs about 550 lbs

The all-aluminum LS motors weigh about 400 lbs, bare
A fully dressed LS7 weighs 490lbs with flywheel and dry sump

So there's a significant difference.

[CurtEgerer]

There was a guy guest-driving a vintage road-racing Mustang on a road rally with me a couple years back. I think his comment to me was something like, 'great car, just needs suspension and brakes'. I think the guy's name was Mike .....

[ted]

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

Does the big block with aluminum heads weigh that much more than the LS series? Those big valve covers do look retro cool.

Yes the BB with al heads was told is 130lbs heavier than a small block.
On a heavy Camaro that enough to be a notable handling disadvantage?

That said whats the cycle life on the 502 if rarely raced? 30K miles?
Any guess to the mpg on such a car, if you drove it like a priest?
15 mpg highway, not less than 10 mpg I hope?
Less the than 8mpg with your foot in it?
The 6 speed is great for the highway, is the crate 502 ok on the highway?

I need to get the hp/torque curves and a gear chart graph for the drive train.
It has a 12 bolt rear with 4.11 gears and 4 close ratios with 5/6 as over drive gears.

Part of me thinks this kinda power would be better used in a more developed platform, like a newer Vette with a supercharger.

Nice hot rod Crusty, thanks for the lead.

Just shopping pre 75 hobby cars...
thanks for the discussion.

[Jim Bremner]

Big Red Camaro Official website :::: Welcome!

just push the bigblock 2-3" back! you won't feel that extra 150#

I would like to do the same but in a steel bumbered C3 roadster

[ted]

Originally Posted by CurtEgerer

There was a guy guest-driving a vintage road-racing Mustang on a road rally with me a couple years back. I think his comment to me was something like, 'great car, just needs suspension and brakes'. I think the guy's name was Mike .....

Thanks for reminding me, yeah it would be more of that.
But that was a flimsy 65 Mustang convertible with bogus brakes and no suspension and crappy tires with a 5 speed 350hp.

The Camaro has chassis stiffeners and 6 piston front and 4 piston rear disk brake and aftermarket front suspension.
Could use a 4 point cage for roll overs.
It would have to stop and turn better than that Mustang.
Targa California left a smile left foot braking the stang as it flopped around 2nd/3rd gear corners Hwy 1.

[Rednine11]

Just my opinion here but 4:11 gears are great 1/4 mile gears but I am not sure you'd run them for a rally car. I might be off base here but wouldn't something with a little more top end be in order for that kind of running? gear swaps aren't too bad to do on that diff. Of course his car having a six speed would definately help too.

[Jim Bremner]

Originally Posted by ted

Yes the BB with al heads was told is 130lbs heavier than a small block.
On a heavy Camaro that enough to be a notable handling disadvantage?

That said whats the cycle life on the 502 if rarely raced? 30K miles?>>>>>>>I would say a TON longer even if pushed hard! it's a 5,800 rpm motor
Any guess to the mpg on such a car, if you drove it like a priest?
15 mpg highway, not less than 10 mpg I hope?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you have a 6spd with a .68 overdive and 4:11 rear gears it would lump along at 75mph around 2,700 rpm figure 18-20 on the highway.
Less the than 8mpg with your foot in it? >>>>>>>>>my 331 stroker in my fastback got 6mpg on Streets of Willow. Chevette got 9 and my buds wrx with a fuel inrichment deal got ...4!
The 6 speed is great for the highway, is the crate 502 ok on the highway?>>>> YES I had a 498 in my motorhome it just lumps along with TORQUE
I need to get the hp/torque curves and a gear chart graph for the drive train.
It has a 12 bolt rear with 4.11 gears and 4 close ratios with 5/6 as over drive gears.

Part of me thinks this kinda power would be better used in a more developed platform, like a newer Vette with a supercharger.>>>>>>>>>>>> plenty of ways to make the early camero go fast!

Nice hot rod Crusty, thanks for the lead.

Just shopping pre 75 hobby cars...
thanks for the discussion.

Get on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jim Bremner]

A grain of sand among oysters!

[ted]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

Big Red Camaro Official website :::: Welcome!

just push the bigblock 2-3" back! you won't feel that extra 150#

I would like to do the same but in a steel bumbered C3 roadster

very cool photo and link....
Looks like some nice tire under that Camaro.
Motor pushed back, things to consider thank you.
Nice Vette, guess on track the right year vintage Vette is going drive away from the Camaro?

[kaisen]

Don't tell the Gottleibs. This 800+hp all-aluminum big-block Camaro has been clocked at 222 mph on public (closed) roads. Search "Big Red"

I'd love to build a LS powered 6 speed '69 Camaro from a replacment body

[Jim Bremner]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Don't tell the Gottleibs. This 800+hp all-aluminum big-block Camaro has been clocked at 222 mph on public (closed) roads. Search "Big Red"

I'd love to build a LS powered 6 speed '69 Camaro from a replacment body

ADD 200+ more hp and claimed 240mph

I saw 152 in mine at 5,200 rpm on a 7k redline. It was STABLE at 152, I ran out of road I wish that it was longer and flatter I was heading up a 4-5% grade

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

ADD 200+ more hp and claimed 240mph

It was dynoed in 2005 and put out 874 hp and 655 ft-lbs both at 7,000 rpm

The engine may have been massaged since then

[Jim Bremner]

I wonder what kind of FPS that engine is creating?

If it's only a 502 the stroke is 4.25 that's 2,479 FPS with a pretty big slug at the end of the rod!

502 Engines 3.760" 4.000" 4.250" 4.500" 4.750" 4.875"
Stock bore = 4.468" 472" 502" 533" 564" 596" 611"
Bored .032" = 4.500" 478" 509" 541" 573" 604" 620"
Bored .062" = 4.530" 485" 516" 548" 580" 612" 629"
Bored .092" = 4.560" 491" 523" 555" 588" 621" 637"

[kaisen]

It's a 540, and has seen 7,700 rpm

4.250 stroke, 4.50 bore

[Jim Bremner]

Originally Posted by kaisen

It's a 540, and has seen 7,700 rpm

4.250 stroke, 4.50 bore

2,887.5 piston speed HOLY COWWWWWWWWWWWW