Texans toting guns they don't know how to use...

[Pazuzu]

The thread title is to draw attention

Texans getting concealed handgun permits without ever firing a shot | khou.com | Khou.com - News, Houston news, Texas News, Headlines
Texas concealed handgun law requires range with with an actual gun. However, they have reciprocity with Utah (as does nearly everyone else). Utah does not require any range time at all.

The concern is that there are Texans carrying right now, who think they're qualified to use their firearm for protection, when they have never actually fired a gun. some people seem to think this is wrong, and that Texas should break reciprocity with Utah, and require people here to at least learn how to use that piece of equipment on your hip.

I don't see this being a political, "gun rights" thread, so shove that. Lets' discuss whether reciprocity has gone too far, or whether a state should even have reciprocity with another state who's requirements are significantly laxer. Heck, we could even discuss open carry in Texas and other states, and how someone who open carries also doesn't need training.

[Rikao4]

Texas should do the reprocity thingy with states that at least meet Texas standards..
Any state (person) that issues these permits without the person firing a shot..
deserves to be shot in the foot at least..

Rika

[Rick Lee]

They should have a competency test for voting too.

In a few weeks we'll no longer need permits to CCW in AZ, so the competency requirement is kind of moot too. But I'll keep mine current for reciprocity with other states. I was a very seasoned shooter before I had to take the BS classes for my VA, AZ and UT permits. Didn't have to take classes for my PA or NH permits and I don't hear about accidental shootings by CCW'ers in those states.

[Pazuzu]

Also as mentioned in the link, the Utah permit is significantly cheaper, and from talking to people, easier to renew/maintain...it's all but designed to draw people in.


I wonder if this is a big conspiracy so that Utah can full the US with gun toting people who don't know how to shoot straight, so the Mormons can take over!

[Rick Lee]

Actually, the UT permit is losing some reciprocity. It's a PITA to get one out of state because the instructors have to travel to UT once a year to keep their instructors license. Obviously, this cost is passed onto those taking the classes in other states, as I did. I think I paid $50 and I was the only person in the class, held at a local cop's house. He fingerprinted me there too. Then I paid $60 or so for the permit app. and got it a month or two later. Then six mos. later NV stopped recognizing UT permits because they want people to have to travel to NV and spend money there to get trained. Several other states only recognize UT permits WITH a UT driver's license. So you have to know the laws where you're going. Non-resident permits are losing some reciprocity. I just keep a stack of permits when I travel to states with reciprocity and will deal them out like cards to a cop who stops me until he finds one he likes.

[Jim Bremner]

All 50 states allow a marriage license from the other 50 as well as drivers license.

Things need to change!

Lotsa bad guys carrying that have never fired them either.

[red-beard]

I need to check the regulations, but I don't think a Texas Resident can carry on a non-resident Utah permit. Even if this is permissible, I think you'll find that it will amount to only a handful.

[masraum]

"RIGHT to bear arms."

not

"if you're a good shot, right to bear arms."

In some ways, I agree, there should be competency testing before folks can carry a gun. BUT, as soon as you start making a right conditional, it is no longer a right.

It's a fine line, I'd prefer the folks with CCW to be smart, trained, level headed folks, but it is a right for EVERYONE.

Driving is a privilege, there's a test. Having a gun is a right, the only test should be "human and a heartbeat". I guess being a felon means you have lost some of your rights.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by red-beard

I need to check the regulations, but I don't think a Texas Resident can carry on a non-resident Utah permit. Even if this is permissible, I think you'll find that it will amount to only a handful.

I believe you are correct. I think if you're a resident, then you have to get a TX permit.

[Pazuzu]

So, the entire story and the research behind it is false?

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by masraum

BUT, as soon as you start making a right conditional, it is no longer a right.

It's a fine line, I'd prefer the folks with CCW to be smart, trained, level headed folks, but it is a right for EVERYONE.

Driving is a privilege, there's a test. Having a gun is a right, the only test should be "human and a heartbeat". I guess being a felon means you have lost some of your rights.

Really? So any restriction on a "right" is reduces it to something less than a "right"?

Free speech (slander, libel, shouting "fire" in a crowded venue when no fire is present, etc.)

Voting- (convicted felon)

Pursuit of Happiness - (pedophiles, con artists, etc.)

[red-beard]

I just read the reciprocity agreement. The primary check is that the state run a background check on individuals, to make sure they can carry a firearm under the GCA.

The agreement didn't seem to restrict, and in fact states it allows, carry with a non-resident permit.

On the whole, I would say this is a non-issue. At least these people have gone to the trouble to get a permit. I have the Texas, Utah and Florida permits. I should get a NH permit as well. There are several states where you cannot use a non-resident permit to carry. Florida, and I think Michigan. A Texan, carrying a Texas permit can carry. A Texan with a Utah permit cannot carry.

[Rick Lee]

I always carry in TX. Ironically, the only airports I've ever been hassled at for checking a gun are DFW and El Paso.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

Really? So any restriction on a "right" is reduces it to something less than a "right"?

Free speech (slander, libel, shouting "fire" in a crowded venue when no fire is present, etc.)

Voting- (convicted felon)

Pursuit of Happiness - (pedophiles, con artists, etc.)

Those are inuries. Having the right to keep and bear arms doesn't give me the "right" to walk down the street shooting people. The right to free speech doesn't give me a right to lie. I don't think the US presently allows any religion that practices human sacrifice.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I always carry in TX. Ironically, the only airports I've ever been hassled at for checking a gun are DFW and El Paso.

Really? I've never been hasseled at an Airport. Even in California, I had no problems. Here in Houston, they regularly give me the wrong form, the form that allows me to carry on the plane...

[Tim Hancock]

I do not have a concealed carry permit "yet" for several reasons.

1) I hate the idea of having my name put a govt list.

2) I do not typically find my self in bad locations where I feel I need to carry. (That said, If I know I may be traveling through a bad part of town on a rare occasion for work, rest assured I will have what I need to protect myself in my car. )

3) The whole idea that someone other than my dad, granddad or my old drill instructor is supposed to officially train me prior to the govt allowing me to protect myself makes my blood boil.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Really? I've never been hasseled at an Airport. Even in California, I had no problems. Here in Houston, they regularly give me the wrong form, the form that allows me to carry on the plane...

I'd rather get that form!

Yes, the TSA goon at DFW told me my ammo was not packed properly. It was in two magazines. He said it had to be taped, which I know is BS. He called me behind the line and told me to do it, handed me a roll of "TSA" tape. Took forever to get it off when I landed too. El Paso didn't hassle me, just actually asked me to clear the gun for them at the check-in counter. I was only ever asked to do that at Chicago Midway long ago.

[rattlsnak]

Originally Posted by Rikao4

Texas should do the reprocity thingy with states that at least meet Texas standards..
Any state (person) that issues these permits without the person firing a shot..
deserves to be shot in the foot at least..

Rika

None in Georgia either. You simply walk up to the window, fill out an application, get finger printed and a background check and 5-7 days later, your permit comes in the mail. Nothing what so ever about safety, handling, etc. Have a buddy in Fl who said there at least he had to take some kind of safety/law course before he got his.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Those are inuries. Having the right to keep and bear arms doesn't give me the "right" to walk down the street shooting people. The right to free speech doesn't give me a right to lie. I don't think the US presently allows any religion that practices human sacrifice.

Yes, they are restrictions that have been put in place before the injury happens, Ce n'est pas ça?