Help with D.A. (traffic)

[968rz]

Hey Everyone.
I was hoping the lawyer types could give me some advice on dealing with the D.A. for traffic court. I seldom get tickets and when I do I normally just pay them (I'm honest enough to take my lumps when caught ). This time I'm not guilty .

The quick details are:
I was driving my Jetta in the center lane maybe 65mph in a 55 zone (with traffic), I passed the off ramp before mine and moved to the right lane noticing a black car in it but back a bit (an easy 10+ car lengths so safe to move over for sure). Before I even passed under the bridge the black car is 5' off my bumper trying to push me (I hate tailgaters). Just as I was about to check my brakes he jumps in to the center lane and I see the squad just coming off the on ramp.
With no where else to go I hit the emergency lane so he could pass but no, he pulls me over.
Now the B.S. starts. He claims (verbal) that he had me doing 83 in the right lane , I tried to argue "no way I was going that fast" but he just took my lic and wrote the ticket. When he returned I (nicely) suggested he had clocked the blk car that was tailing me; I could see it in his face as he looked back at the lanes *oh crap, he's right* but he just said " to late anyway the tickets been written"

Now I have to go and try to fight it because I will not pay for someone else's ticket.
Problem is I figure I'm already found guilty just because he's a cop and the Judge/DA will believe him over me, even with out evidence but I have to try.

Thanks in advance.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by 968rz

...

I figure I'm already found guilty just because he's a cop and the Judge/DA will believe him over me, even with out evidence but I have to try.

...

you are correct -- there is very little justice in traffic court

[968rz]

I figured that I will end up paying for this but hope to minimize the pain as much as possible.
I'm hoping (praying) the cop wont show and I'll win by default but I have a feeling this guy enjoys going to court (he's been honored by the community).
The best I guess I can hope for is to plea down, that's where I hope to get some advice on dealing with the DA for.

[RWebb]

about the only way to do this, is to hire a well-connected local lawyer and let him negotiate with the DA

but you could try doing it yourself

[968rz]

I was hoping to do it my self, no reason to spend more if I lose.

[red-beard]

Get a lawyer/lawfirm that specializes in this kind of stuff. It is a mistake to represent yourself.

[looneybin]

it's getting rare that the cop won't show up in court, it's how they generate the revenue afterall

[RWebb]

selfing it makes you much more likely to lose

rough odds of losing:

DIY = 99.9%

lawyer = 85%

[jshape]

Get a lawyer and see if he can convince the DA to allow you to plead to something that does not have points attached to it, e.g., failing to sign registration. All they really want is the money and you have to figure out how to get it to them at the least cost to you. If you want to beat it out altogether, good luck.

[Dueller]

First thing is that most, if not all, radar units can only clock oncoming traffic. So if he meant by "clocking" you he was pacing you you're likely screwed because its your word against his.

If representing yourself understand that the cop has probably the biggest say in whether its dismissed, remanded, reduced, etc. If I were you I'd show up early, try to catch the cop in the hallway and politely ask hin if there was anything he could do to help you out. Tough little line to wlk to try to get him to give u a brak without coming out and telling him he made a mistake without getting him pissed at u.

Good Luck.

[m21sniper]

Let them find you guilty, and appeal.

At appeals court, the DA there will be looking to make deals. All they want is the money, they could give a fk less about the points.

Plea down to a lesser offense. I have done this at least a dozen times over the years here in philly.

[ewave]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Get a lawyer/lawfirm that specializes in this kind of stuff. It is a mistake to represent yourself.

Are you speaking from experience?

Have you every actually tried to defended yourself?

Where does the BS advice come from?(!)

My record, on defending myself for the last 15 years on six court appearances, (ten tickets) is five out of six appearances I won, with eight out of ten tickets dismissed.

I'd suggest EVERYONE always plead Not Guilty and request a trial by jury.

[Rot 911]

Originally Posted by ewave

I'd suggest EVERYONE always plead Not Guilty and request a trial by jury.

Not always an option. For example, in Missouri you can only request a jury trial for crimes in which the penalty can be a jail sentence. Most traffic violations do not have a possibility of jail time, only a fine.

[ewave]

Originally Posted by Rot 911

Not always an option. For example, in Missouri you can only request a jury trial for crimes in which the penalty can be a jail sentence. Most traffic violations do not have a possibility of jail time, only a fine.

I'd suggest EVERYONE in TEXAS always plead Not Guilty and request a trial by jury.

Better?

[Noah930]

So what's a guy in Wisconsin to do, then?

What does it say on the ticket regarding how your speed of 83 mph was obtained? Is your car also black? If the speed was by pacing or radar/laser, subpeona the calibration records. See if you can get the ticket thrown out on those technicalities.

I'd be inclined to fight the ticket. It's one thing to get popped for 65 in a 55--another to get someone else's ticket for 83 in a 55. What's wrong with being honest in front of the court? If the LEO is similarly honest, he might indicate that he may have made a mistake (or that he does not recall any of the details) and you'll be let off.

[MRM]

Are you in the Milwaukee area? What city were you in? Was it a trooper or local cop that pulled you over? Didn't they make you pay on the spot with some sort of receipt that you use to fight the ticket if you want?

Speeding tickets in Wisconsin are tricky but they can be handled. The problem is that you are guilty. You were going (with the flow of traffic) maybe 65 in a 55 zone. The car behind you may have been the one the cop was chasing, but Wisconsin is a state where the rule is that 1 mph over the limit is speeding. So if you tell your story, the judge will probably believe every word of it and find you guilty.

Wisconsin still has the municiple court system. You'll appear in some city court somewhere, probably with a part time municiple judge. There is no jury option. You'll have to make two appearances before you get the court trial. The first appearance is just to set the date for the trial.

If you're really serious about beating the ticket you have to shake the foundation of the cop's speed estimate. That means getting the radar or whatever excluded. Again, tricky, but it can be done. Your best bet is to find an attorney who specializes in criminal law who has done a lot of court trials. Cops in Wisconsin, especially troopers, are pretty well trained. It's hard to trip one of them up on foundational issues, but as I said before, it's been done I'm about 250 miles too far away to really help you out, though.

[968rz]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

First thing is that most, if not all, radar units can only clock oncoming traffic. So if he meant by "clocking" you he was pacing you you're likely screwed because its your word against his.

He was on an exit ramp targeting traffic coming towards him. There's an on ramp right after the bridge that he entered the x-way from.

Are you in the Milwaukee area? What city were you in? Was it a trooper or local cop that pulled you over? Didn't they make you pay on the spot with some sort of receipt that you use to fight the ticket if you want?

IT was a Racine County Deputy Sheriff and I've never had to pay on the spot, that's reserved for out-of-towners.

What does it say on the ticket regarding how your speed of 83 mph was obtained? Is your car also black? If the speed was by pacing or radar/laser, subpeona the calibration records. See if you can get the ticket thrown out on those technicalities.

The ticket doe not say how the speed was determined but I'm sure the report does, I'm guessing radar. My car is a dark(er) blue.

I'd suggest EVERYONE always plead Not Guilty

Back in my younger days I was told by a lawyer to always fight a ticket but the ones I've gotten (it's not that many) I was guilty so I just paid them.

[968rz]

Think this could help?
I found a TSB (2012684) from VW that shows my model year Jetta (and others) have mis-calibrated speedos. They are set to EU specs causing them to read high (in the range of 10%), mine has not been adjusted as I tested it against 3 GPS units and it's not listed in the service history.
That means traveling at an actual 83 my speedo would read around 92. No freakin way I would drive that fast in a 55 zone, no way.
That also means at 65 on the speedo actual would only be around 60.

[Noah930]

The speeder was in a black car, and yours is dark blue. Could the officer have mistaken your car for the other? Do you recall any other details of that black car? The more details you have (without being overly so), and the less the LEO has, the more believable your story is.

The only time I've fought a ticket, I won. I'm no lawyer, and I realize that the rules for traffic infractions is different than those of true crimes. But when in court I offered up the concept of "reasonable doubt," and the judge agreed.

From the few traffic tickets I've gotten, there's always been a line where the officer cites how he/she arrived at the speed written on the ticket. (That way, you know what type of records to subpeona--calibration records for a radar gun, laser/lidar gun, patrol car speedometer, or visual estimation.) Do you not have something like that on your fast driving award?

If you fight the ticket by yourself, I don't know if the TSB will necessarily help. I follow your line of reasoning, but in court it might just confuse the issue. Still, it's worthwhile to have that little argument lined up and practiced, just in case. You'll have to see how your court date goes and play it by ear.

[968rz]

The speeder was in a black car, and yours is dark blue. Could the officer have mistaken your car for the other? Do you recall any other details of that black car? The more details you have (without being overly so), and the less the LEO has, the more believable your story is.

My cars dark enough to look "black" at a distance (i guess?). As for details; the black car was a Lexus LS400, while in the center lane there was an old blue Chevy PU (in front of me) and a Sand like colored Ford Excursion in the left lane. The morning sky was overcast so that could help my car look darker.
For the record I was on my way home from a 12hr night shift and was in no hurry to get anywhere; also I've driven this road my whole life and know where the cops sit, so even if I was inclined to go that fast it sure wouldn't be in that 30+ year old speed trap.