Deporting our American Values
 

It has been said that the American spirit, our culture, nearly expired but has been saved. By Mexican-Americans. They start with nothing, add generous amounts of HARD work, efficient budgeting, serving small niches that native-born Americans will not trifle with, and build their livelihoods and families on a foundation of traditional values. They attend church, start each day early in the morning and thank God at the end of each day. They win some and lose some, but make bullish progress forward.

They bring their kids to work, assign them chores and teach them values. One-on-one teaching, the kind kids remember. They eat as families. They get together as communities of families.

In short, they are pursuing the America our grandparents pursued, but that our kids apparently will not. While our kids will compete for jobs as video game beta testers, their kids will change our tires and make our meals. While our kids borrow money to drive the newest Infinity, their kids will buy and restore old Porsche 997’s while saving 10% of their income.

Alas…..we don’t welcome people with brown faces and dark brown shoulders who would teach our nation the values of our grandfathers. We pretend they are taking our jobs, but I see no native-born competition when it comes time to pick cherries.

Are we afraid? Who are we afraid of? Are we afraid of these industrious people? Perhaps we should be.

Nicely written!

Best,
Tom

If everything truly was as Normal Rockwell as you paint it, there wouldn't be a problem.

I don’t get it. Not all white kids want to be video game testers. And not all brown kids are going to be changing tires and restoring Porsches.

I have a friend who teaches public school in North Omaha, Neb. and the school had to offer DOOR PRISES to get the parents to show up on parent teacher conference day.

I started with nothing and I am doing all right... even though my skin is white.

Supe. this thread and your thoughts = FAIL!'

Nice vignette. Wrong immigrants.

Pretty sure you should have been talking about Asian immigrants. They are, as a percentage, far more industrious than any other recent immigrant groups.

In California, the Mexican immigrants are an incredible financial burden to our economy. They fill our prisons, consume free health care, collect welfare and food stamps at alarming rates. Yes, they also pick fruit and wash our cars. But the economic impact is so far out of balance it's truly ridiculous.

Moses, well written!

I guess your perspective depends of where you live. I grew up in fly over country. My best friend worked 100 crappy jobs that apparently Mexicans do elsewhere to pay for college. He is 31 years old and is just now graduating Vet school.

Exactly.

I've grown up in mixed areas, with all sorts of races, but largely hispanic and asian, most of my life. Starting in the 60s.

I think Mexicans were in many ways like asians, starting out in the US. For example, both use gardening as a stepping stone to success. In the 60s, most gardeners on the west coast (maybe other places, I don't know) were Asian.

When I say "gardeners," I mean they'd come to this country, scrape some money together, buy an old pickup truck, lawnmower and rakes, and start knocking on doors for clients.

Then they'd save up their money and start other enterprises. Laundromats, liquor stores, etc. (This wasn't done by choice, completely. No one would hire Asians in the 60s. No asian immigrant was going to become an executive at IBM, etc.) They'd highly stress integration into the US culture, learning English, and becoming educated. These were very important values. Other impt values were being self sufficient, being grateful for the freedoms and opportunities in the US (instead of feeling like "victims," despite real discrimination in the 60s etc), and being self-reliant from the govt (asians for the most part don't take welfare, etc., at least didn't back then).

As Asians moved up the ladder from gardening, Mexicans started to take it over. Which was a good thing for them. They were following a very similar, time-proven path to success.

But, at some point, it seems like they fell off track. For the most part, they didn't take the next step, to saving up money, starting more lucrative businesses, taking full advantage of the US educational system, etc.

Why they have, to a large extent, failed to prosper like the asians is a good question. But that they have failed to do so isn't really at issue.

(I had an interested experience a few months ago, going to a state Labor Commissioner office. I was surprised, despite the area being maybe 30% hispanic, that pretty much every person in there was hispanic, making their various claims against their former employers, most of which claims appeared to be nothing but a shakedown for cash).

So, yeah, the Norman Rockwell success story certainly can be applied to many immigrant groups. Not sure Mexican is one of them, unfortunately.

Supe.

1) Please wear a helmet.
2) Isn't this PARF material?

[QUOTE=BlueSkyJaunte;5473448]Supe.

1) Please wear a helmet.
2) Isn't this PARF material?

So far, No. It doesn't seem to be about religion or politics (yet).

Best,
Tom

Hey, don't knock video game testers.

It's a much more difficult job than people realize.

It's highly tedious to play code that crashes every 5 seconds in it's early stages.

It requires a tremendous amount of logic, problem solving, analysis and organization. They need to be highly literate as verbal and written communication skills are crucial to relaying their findings.

Game testing is the first step in a carrer path. Many have aspirations to becoming producers and designers and much like a trade job they need to start at the bottom and pay their dues to move up to those high profile positions.

The ones who think it's just sitting around playing games rarely get hired and if they do they don't last very long at all.

I have zero issues with legal immigrants. ZERO!

I am completely at a lack of understanding when people fail to grasp the difference between legal and illegal. And please, there are illegal immigrants here from all over including Canada, England, Germany, France... These are the people I have issue with.

When a person goes through the gantlet of becoming a US Immigrant and they have completed all their documentation and been accepted they have the rights due to them via our legal process. If their rights fall into allowing them to collect welfare in our welfare state, well that is the fault of our laws and not the immigrants issue! For this, I say lay off legal immigrants. They have been given a legal status/right to be here.

Illegal immigrants are breaking our laws. They have zero status. In ALMOST every other country they would not even have the right to drive, rent (let alone own) property, obtain employment, etc. They have ZERO status in almost every other country. WHY should our country be one of the few who provide status to illegal immigrants? WHY? Explain it to me like I was a four year old, because I have not been able to understand it otherwise through eloquent conversation.

What Moses said, your entire premise is invalid I would say, but that is no surprise. We have always welcomed immigrants, and still do. The huge problem now stems from the illegal immigrants, which is an entirely different ballgame. I doubt if you even believe most of the stuff you post here Supes.

You want to know what you left out of your fairy tale? No? Sorry going to have to tell you anyway.

When my Dad's parents fled Russia a hundred years ago, they came to the country legally and became Americans. They lived in Canada for a few years, then my Grandfather went to Nebraska, worked for several years, to save the money and make arrangements for the wife and kids. They were never Volga German Americans, or German Americans, or Russian Americans, just legal immigrants and then Americans. They demanded their children speak English outside the home, forbidding them from speaking German anywhere but at home or at Church. If they heard the kids were not speaking English, the kids got the strap.

Many immigrants, almost all of the illegals, have no interest in becoming Americans. That is the difference and the source of most of the problems.

LOL. My brain has sustained some damage over the years, but those have been mainly chemical attacks. Am actively protecting against trauma. Got a very nice-fitting (snug) vintage set of leather riding pants on Friday via Craigslist for the princely sum of $30. Thick, padded, etc.

Taking the riding test on Saturday to perfect my motorcycle endorsement. I've put nearly 1500 miles on her in the last 45 days. Will be sending pics soon.

As you know (or at least have asserted), I am a pathetically ignorant liberal but I do have one thing going for me. I have you to school me up.

redundant...

+1 to Moses and Tobra.

Certainly not an oxymoron...

There have been many waves of immigrants to America, from the Spanish to California (my peeps) to Irish and Italians, etc. Each met and overcame, for the most part, the trials and tribulations they faced.

As other posters have written, I have nothing against legal immigration in the least.

I think what has handicapped the latest wave of illegal immigrants is their uncertain status, the fact that in the mean they don't invest in their future here because they are illegal and have a tenuous grasp, can be deported at any moment.

The ledger seems tilted: They want the benefits of our society but want them at little cost.

When I was the Chief Pilot at the Sikorsky Factory I rented a room from one of factory test pilots, Yong Lee...a Korea born and raised for the most part in Korea.

He becaime a citizen, like the rest of his family. He flew for the Marines, his brother flew for the Navy and both his sisters have advanced degrees. They started with little or nothing and through sheer will participated in the American dream and flourished.

His stories of the the transition into our society were riveting.

Todd, the pathetic or the ignorant part or both?

I don't know that I have ever referred to you as pathetic or ignorant, maybe ridiculous, or ridonculous, liberal though, definitely liberal, as evidenced by the failure to respond in a meaningful way to any serious assertions here, which is more typical liberal than ridonculous liberal.

Oh yeah




Snow Tires

don't go off into the ditch Toby. snow tires will save you, and maybe this thread from PARF.

My wife, and eventually her entire family immigrated to the US from Taiwan. Legally. And they are blending into this society quite nicely. My nearly 90 YO MIL can speak more English than most illegals from Mexico and points South.

Truth be told, Tobra, I throw these clay pidgeons into the air for the purpose of discussion. I believe public policy is terribly important, and the dialogue is necessary for that. Sometimes I caricaturize a position, for purposes of discussion. I'm not sure I disagree with anything posted here so far. Like virtually everyone else, I support legal immigration, and oppose illegal immigration. And quite frankly, here in my geographical area, the hispanics ARE operating the hardest-working landscaping companies and their children really do help pick cherries.

But you know....there is a side-benefit to catalyzing these discussions. Entertainment. I get to see people making over-generalizations about entire groups of people, and even name-calling. Now.....remind me again about your maturity and circumspection.

OOOHHHH SUPE IN LEATHER PANTS!!!! Coo,,,,,, sorry, never mind, going away again

I grew up in south Texas. This story does not describe the immigrants I knew. For the most part they seem to have come here for the free stuff. Not a lot of iniative but plenty of wanting everyone else to conform to their way of doing things. It didn't matter that they or their parents were in the country unlawfully.

What they are pursuing is the reconquista.

I support sending the illegals home at the ends of bayonets, if necessary.

I was making a joke (ie that if you say "pathetic" or "ignorant" you don't need to add "liberal" as it is implied), which seems to be cw around here.

The 800lb elephant that isn't being addressed here are the big businesses that profit from the cheap illegal labor. Yes, everyone is all for legal immigration. But some companies and industries are all for cheap labor, and darned if that usually isn't composed of illegal immigrants. Paul talks about the illegals wanting the benefit without paying the price. While I agree that is the case with some, I'd add that there are businesses that want the benefit without paying the price - and the illegals are their fodder.

Yes, it seems awfully strange that few focus on business complicity in the illegal issue.

Which big businesses are these aside from meat processing plants nowhere near border states? I don't recall seeing any illegals working at large corp. chains in AZ or even in CA. I see plenty of them standing out in front of them looking for day laborer jobs. I see plenty of them working for local landscapers and mom and pop restaurants. Is there some giant lobby for small landscapers and restaurant owners trying to protect illegals? We have some pretty stiff penalties in AZ for businesses caught hiring illegals. Second offense is permanent revocation of business license. And that law doesn't seem to raise any kind of controversy, while SB 1070 has peope in a tizzy.

1) What exactly are these "big" businesses? Walmart? GM? or is it strictly agricultural businesses? If it is, what "big" ag corps are hiring all these illegals?? I ask this seriously, because I've worked with many big bizs over my career, in all sorts of areas, and I've never known of a single one that would knowingly hire an illegal. How can any big (or publicly traded) corporation ever get away with it? There's some investigative reporters asleep at the switch if big companies are routinely knowingly hiring thousands of illegals. Do so is a major violation of law.

2) In any event, we should strictly enforce our borders and promptly send back all illegals, to protect them from being used as fodder by these corporations.

ok, include small businesses. In Los Angeles, garment and other manufacturing. In the rest of CA, agriculture. Restaurant, hotel, construction, etc. Some big, some small. Most turning a blind eye to it. There is knowing and then there is "knowing."

So why is there no legal enforcement against those companies? Who is preventing that from happening?

No illegals; no business complicity issue.

Of course big business will just replace that many more of us with robots. Eventually they will replace every one of us with robots.

Also, would you, as a pathetic liberal, be in favor of law enforcement checking in with the HR depts of these garment, ag, restaurant, bizs to make sure their employee paperwork is in order?

McLoveShackBaby, try not to PARF this thread, please.

I was standing in Lowes tonight buying spackle, annoyed at the fact that such a vast store has only one cashier working, and disgusted by the self-check out lanes that used to house living, breathing American workers.

I am sure that i would rather have a mexican take my money than a machine.

Big business doesn't care one whit about us at all. It's all about the profit margins and the quarterly dividends.

They'd replace their own mothers with machines if it made a positive impact on the bottom line...

Sure. Guilty until proven innocent. Better yet, since illegals are part and parcel to the destruction of the country (per many here), shouldn't these businesses be doing their due diligence on their own as part of their patriotic duty? And in fact, isn't their hiring of illegals treasonous? Maybe *they* should be deported. They are putting profits over the country.

Shocking...who could imagine such a thing?

No wait, capitalism. All is fair in love and war, right? Maybe the business owners who *don't* hire illegals are treasonous because they're not maximizing profit.

That would not be the case. It's just an audit.

Is it "guilty until proven innocent" when the IRS randomly audits? When you take your car in for a smog check?

OK. Lot's of businesses out there, how do we choose which to audit first? The one with lots of brown skinned employees?

And if we find they're illegal, do we deport the business owners? Seems they are acting in a treasonous manner.

Oh wait...they checked their papers...wink wink nudge nudge. They're the victim...

ok :d

Maybe compared to supe and his union leeches, but not when compared to most of us.

There's much more incentive for companies not to check for illegals than there is for them to do a simple verification. What we need is much harsher penalties for company brass that allows/encourages it to happen. Not just monetary fines, but serious prison time.