Latest Crash Data Suggest Driver Error in Toyota Accidents / Toyota will sue ABC News

[slow&rusty]

Justice for Toyota..shares go up and a lawsuit might be on the way over to ABC!

Quote:
"After receiving more than 3,000 reports of sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles, the U.S. Department of Transportation has concluded that driver error was actually at fault. According to The Wall Street Journal, investigators analyzing different data recorders from Toyota vehicles found that at the time of these sudden acceleration crashes, the throttles were wide open rather and the brakes were not depressed. Thus, they have reason to believe that drivers were mistakenly stomping on the accelerator rather than slamming the brakes in an attempt to avoid these crashes.

Of the 75 fatal crashes blamed on sudden acceleration, only one incident has actually been verified as being caused by vehicle fault – the Lexus ES350 accident that killed a California highway patrolman and three other passengers last August. Even so, this case was chalked up as an incident where the floor mat trapped the gas pedal, which Toyota quickly issued a recall for.

The WSJ also reports that U.S. Transportation Department officials have stated publicly that they have yet to find any electronic glitches in Toyota vehicles that could lead to these crashes. The only defects proven to be true are those that have been outlined by Toyota itself – floor mats and sticky accelerator pedals that are slow to return to idle.

So while Toyota may not have been at fault in these sudden acceleration cases, the automaker's image has indeed been seriously tarnished over the past few months. Over eight million Toyota vehicles have been recalled worldwide – a large blemish in automotive history, and it appears that much of the hand-wringing may have been for naught.

Shares of Toyota Motor jumped more than 1% after a report suggested that some of the company's recall woes may have been due to driver error.

Toyota was up 83 cents, or 1.1%, to $71.89 a share in afternoon trading. Shares rose to a high of $72.14 shortly after the report was published.

The U.S. Transportation department has been analyzing data from recorders on Toyota vehicles involved in accidents blamed on sudden acceleration. According to a report in the Wall Street Journal, the analysis has found that throttles were wide open and the brakes were not engaged at the time the cars crashed.

The results, if correct, suggest that some drivers who said their Toyota and Lexus vehicles surged out of control were mistakenly holding down the gas pedal when they intended to hit the brakes, according to the Journal.

However, the report adds that the findings would not exonerate Toyota from two known issues blamed for sudden acceleration in its vehicles: sticky accelerator pedals and floor mats that can trap accelerator pedals to the floor.

Toyota recalled millions of vehicles world wide earlier this year for these and other problems. The company has also been criticized by Congress for a sluggish response when the defects were identified.

Toyota (TM) spokesman Brian Lyons said the Department of Transportation has not provided any information on the analysis to the company. He added that Toyota's own investigation has found a number of causes for unintended acceleration.

"Our findings have determined a number of explanations or causes, including pedal entrapment by floor mats or other objects, sticking pedals, pedal misapplication, engine idle up, or no trouble found," he said.

The Department of Transportation declined to comment on the report.

The Wall Street Journal has a report out that might make things tricky for the lawyers suing over supposedly defective Toyota gas pedals. That report says an initial investigation by the U.S. Transportation Department found essentially the same thing that investigators uncovered when they looked into sudden-acceleration complaints about Audis in the 1980s: driver error.

Toyota’s general counsel sent a letter to the ABC News requesting public apology for misleading viewers.

ABC News is about to be sued by Toyota for published a movie where journalists simulated the throttle lock, and the images presented were not true.

Toyota’s general counsel sent a letter to ABC News president that asks to remove this video and apologize for misleading the public.

Video simulate a system error that controls the throttle, but the images were recorded while the machine was parked.

The reaction of ABC News did not delay to appear. An official from the television said the original images were shaking and that’s why two seconds were replaced.

Emily Lezner, the ABC News spokesman said: “It was a reckless thing to do during editing the film, because employees should have let the original images. In any case, I want to be well understood that the two seconds replaced at the assembly have not alter the outcome of the initial report”.

Toyota’s letter ends with a not very well hidden threat: “Also, please note that Toyota reserves the right to take any measures to protect and defend its reputation and its products and any irresponsible and inaccurate reclamation “.

Following this letter, the film produced by ABC News was not public. "

[Geronimo '74]

Snipe is gonna love this...

[GH85Carrera]

Just like the Audi debacle, dumb drivers that can't tell the difference from go to stop pedals.

[cstreit]

I think most of of were guessing it was AUDI all over again...

[Rot 911]

But apparently there are problems as pointed out in the story: "The only defects proven to be true are those that have been outlined by Toyota itself – floor mats and sticky accelerator pedals that are slow to return to idle."

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Rot 911

But apparently there are problems as pointed out in the story: "The only defects proven to be true are those that have been outlined by Toyota itself – floor mats and sticky accelerator pedals that are slow to return to idle."

Yea, they do have one stupid design in there, if both the gas & a brakes are applied the engine does not drop to idle.

[Paul_Heery]

Originally Posted by WSJ

Video simulate a system error that controls the throttle, but the images were recorded while the machine was parked.

The reaction of ABC News did not delay to appear.

What third grade student wrote this article?

[BGCarrera32]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Yea, they do have one stupid design in there, if both the gas & a brakes are applied the engine does not drop to idle.

So I guess your '85 911 is a stupid design then?

[ckissick]

I still wonder how the cop in that fatal incident couldn't stop the car anyway, by slamming on the brakes. My guess is the car got up to a high speed, then he tried easing the brakes too slowly and burned them out.

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Yea, they do have one stupid design in there, if both the gas & a brakes are applied the engine does not drop to idle.

Stupid design huh?

Does the 911 Porsche "drop the engine to idle if the gas and brake is applied at the same time?"

How about engaging brain before pushing on the pedal? Yes the floormat/gas pedal design needs some work but not the massive recall that occured.

[legion]

No, the stupid design is that you have to shut off the engine differently if the car is in motion versus when it is in park (something most owners probably do not know), and the gear selector is not mechanically linked to the transmission, so putting the car in neutral is only asking the ECU to disengage the transmission--a request that is refused if the engine is more than a few revs off of idle.

[GH85Carrera]

The 911 has a cable, not a drive by wire computer. The early 911 Carrera is NOT a car for the average commuter. Most Toyotas are commuter cars driven by the average driver.

My 911 will start while in gear! The driver is supposed to be smart enough be in netural or push in the clutch to start the car. Enough bad drivers caused problems that Government regulations made all manufacturers put in a switch to prevent that. Now all new cars have tire pressure monitors because so many morons never check the tire pressure.

For ANY commuter car that has drive by wire throttle, the computer should drop the engine speed to idle if the brakes are applied.

[crustychief]

Like cruise control?

[sammyg2]

Guys, one thing you need to know about that floor matt issue:
On all the models I am familiar with, TOYOTA DRIVER'S SIDE FLOOR MATS HAVE HOOKS THAT SECURE THEM IN PLACE!
If installed correctly it is impossible for the matts to interfer with the proper operation of the pedals.

The only way a floor matt can get caught up with the gas pedal is if the moron owner failed to install the floor mat correctly and did not put the little plastic hooks through the holes in hte floor matt.
Maybe the "citizens" at the car wash didn't install the matt right, but it's still the owner's responsiblility ot look down and see that his matts are put in right. It takes about a 1 second glance and an I.Q. of at least 80.
AGAIN, MORON ERROR!
Toyota recommended that all owners remove all driver's side floor matts because John Q. Public is too stupid to have floor matts.

The sticking accelerator pedals were foud to be a problem in areas of extreme humidity and low temperatures, and were rare. They found that in some extreme instances in snow storm or ice storms, if would be possible for condensation to build up in the pedal assembly and freeze there and cause the pedal to be stiff. The only way they could reproduce this problem was to put the car in a giant freezer, spray water all over the car with the windows down until the carpets were soaked, and then freeze the freaking car.
Oh yeah, who hasn't had that happen to them?
I have to ask myself, how many of these reported problems were due to a pedal that was frozen with ice inside the car?
I'd bet not many.

There were SOME legitimate problems with Toyota vehicles. A few. A very rare few.

But Most of this whole toyota sticking accellerator problem is a direct result of 1 of 3 things:
1) toyota bashing from irresponsible people who have a grudge against toyota (a psychological issue that needs treatment) or...
2) rip off low-lifes looking to hit the law-suit lottery, or ...
3) morons who are too stupid to be operating machinery or install floor matts. The DMV needs a test to prove that people can tell the difference between a gas pedal and a brake pedal.

I posted a while ago that toyota will eventually come out of this smelling like a rose. Some laughed at that. Only time will tell.

Audi went through this. Eventually it came out that it was a BS story.
Chebby went through this with the pick ups with saddle tanks, turns out the news show rigged spark plugs on the truck to cause the fire. BS!

Porsche got sued for making the 930 turbo so powerful it was dangerous.
That was back when they had around 260 HP IRC. BS!

Eventually the truth comes out.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

The only way they could reproduce this problem was to put the car in a giant freezer, spray water all over the car with the windows down until the carpets were soaked, and then freeze the freaking car.
Oh yeah, who hasn't had that happen to them?

[widebody911]

I'll bet this guy feels especially stupid right now...

[URY914]

Right pedal = go

Left pedal = stop

[john70t]

Originally Posted by legion

No, the stupid design is that you have to shut off the engine differently if the car is in motion versus when it is in park (something most owners probably do not know), and the gear selector is not mechanically linked to the transmission, so putting the car in neutral is only asking the ECU to disengage the transmission--a request that is refused if the engine is more than a few revs off of idle.

No easy solution:
-If the engine shut off at highway speed with a quick push of the button, then kids would be pressing them while mommy is being tailgated by a semi. Then crash then lawsuit.
-Same with the gear selector and mommies purse strap, I suppose.

I actually agree with both your points, but there is no fool-proof system that can be made for the American public......Too many fools, and a million ways to make mistakes.

Column/protected-dash shifting and the start button at the top left would safely allow both of those, but then mabye it wouldn't pass the marketing department.

Toyota's problem seems to be trying to make a sleek, futuristic, interior control layout look good and stay functional at the same time.
Hard to get right.

[jpachard]

As I have said, if you try to design something to be idiot proof, someone will design a better idiot.

[Zeke]

Hopefully kids will be strapped in their booster seats.

I do remember when it was fun to turn off the driver's ignition, but that was before locking steering and seat belts.