when should i take a break from jogging?

[Evans, Marv]

Hey, maybe you didn't do so great, but the main thing is to have fun. Just listen to your body and act accordingly. From what you describe, your trip really isn't very strenuous. Use this first as a learning experience and remember to put an emphasis on enjoyment.
By the way, are you all taking tents?? For me a tarp about 12X12 or a little more (12X14 or 16) is a lot more enjoyable and versatile, especially if you aren't going to get really high winds and snow. Otherwise it's great for sun shade, rain protection, and weight savings. For the weight savings part definitely buy one that is advertised to be a light weight and put 8 or 10 ft. lengths of parachute cord on each grommet. That way you can configure it any way you want. The time is drawing near & you'll soon find out how it will be.

[Evans, Marv]

Well if sailchef gets to tell a story, so do I. It might make you feel you are not so poorly prepared as others have been.
During the summer of 1976, I was the Mt. Whitney back country ranger for the Natl. Park Serv. I'd take my sleeping bag & a little food every once in a while and go up to the summit from my ranger station at Crabtree. I'd either climb up the west side of the mountain or just go up the trail and spend the night with the tourists. Once close to sundown when I was up there, some guy came up wearing levis, cowboy boots, a leather jacket with buckskin, had a napsack, and was carrying a green coleman camp stove. His sleeping bag was cloth and paper thin. I figured he did pretty well making it up there in that get up. I didn't criticize him but just asked where he was going. He told me he was going down the west side to spend a couple of weeks living off the land. I asked him if he had ever done that before, and he said he hadn't. So I just told him there wasn't a lot of food to be had off the land, and although it was summer, he might want to reconsider after the night on Whitney since it still got cold and especially at that altitude frost formed right after sundown on the sleeping bags. I had to give the guy credit. He was gone early the next morning back down to Trailcamp and the trailhead.
There was also one time when a couple of guys lugged hang gliders up there. I asked them what they were going to do (duh). They of course told me they were going to hang glide off of the top of Whitney. The boundary between the park and Forest Service land went along the top, eastern edge of Whitney, park land to the west - Forest Service to the east. I told them since the air was so thin, I doubted the hang gliders would make it, but if they were going to jump off the east edge, it was OK with me. However, I was relieved they too changed their minds. I've got tons of other stories.

[vash]

i "trotted" up half dome a few years ago. i felt great. brought a camelback full of water, a couple of breakfast burritos crammed in there..near the top, the temps got HOT. we made it, but we couldnt catch this older couple..(early 70's)..they had full khaki colored gear..hats, the woman was wearing what she called her "hiking skirt". it was a canvas khaki ankle length skirt. they had walking sticks, and a water bottle each. we would get past them occasionally..then stop to rest, only to have them slowly walk past us. in the end, they blew us into the weeds.

they did the hike 3 days a week!! wow. i bet they are still at it.

[Tishabet]

Vash,
50lbs is a LOT for summer backpacking... Fwiw my summer pack without food is under 20. I am of course not carrying hunting stuff, but still... Are you sure you can't cut more?

[vash]

under 20!!?? wow.

i am pared down..only hiking clothes and camo clothes..none in between. thunderstorms today..so i need a tent. taking a single wall, one man. lows are in the high 30's. binos, and gear..

wow, under 20? my water bladder..damn. rethinking that, but i have never been there, so i dont know the regularity of a running stream.
and i am not sure i have enough food for 4-5 nights..

[aigel]

If you kill something you may carry 120 on the way out, assuming your buddies get something too. (I assume you are deer hunting?)

Doesn't sound like you are terribly well prepared in terms of knowing the area you are going into. Why didn't anyone hike up there 4 weeks ago to scout for a day (both for water and animals)? I know, that's awfully late now, but instead of posting about this trip a month ago, you worry about squirrels in your yard and the latest dinner you cooked.

Cheers,

George

[Tishabet]

Originally Posted by vash

under 20!!?? wow.

i am pared down..only hiking clothes and camo clothes..none in between. thunderstorms today..so i need a tent. taking a single wall, one man. lows are in the high 30's. binos, and gear..

wow, under 20? my water bladder..damn. rethinking that, but i have never been there, so i dont know the regularity of a running stream.
and i am not sure i have enough food for 4-5 nights..

You can eat well on 2lbs of food per day... concentrate on calories per ounce. Pepperoni, chocolate, nuts, cheese, Clif bars, peanut butter... all are great for packing in calories at low weight. An ounce of macadamia nuts has 200 calories... bring in 2lbs of those and you've got 6400 calories, plenty to keep you going all day! I typically budget 4,000 cals/day for me backpacking if I don't want to shed weight.

My pack is around 17lbs... but that is without water, food or bear canister. I generally carry around 64 ounces of water with me if there is water in the area, generally consume around 2lbs of food and 3oz of fuel per day and my bear keg weighs around 2 lbs as well.

Yes I have some seriously light gear (sleeping bag under 2lbs, tent under 3, pack under 2) but I bet you can make some savings by re-examining what you are bringing. Below is my packing list for a trip I took in the Sierras last September... probably comparable conditions to your trip. That being said, I am a backpacker not a hunter so...YMMV.

Here is the breakdown in ounces:

On me:
Socks - Smartwool 3
Underarmour 2
REI nylon hiking shorts 4
Wicking tshirt 4
La sportiva wildcat shoes 25
Gaiters 4
Watch w/altimeter 2
Trekking poles w/duct tape 20
Total on me: 64oz/ 4lbs

In my pack:
extra pair Socks-Smartwool 2.85
extra pair underwear 2
extra wicking tshirt 4
long underwear top 8
Long underwear bottom 8
Rain shell pants 11
Rain shell coat 12
Western mountaineering flight vest 6
fleece cap 1
toothbrush 1
Sleeping bag (Western Mountaineering megalite) 25
pad 14
fork, spoon, plate, cup 7
Golite Jam backpack 29
platypus water bladder 1
lighter 1
Swiss army knife 5
headlamp 2.75
pack towel 3
baseball cap for sun protection 4
sunglasses 2
waterproof pack cover 5
cigars 5
Trowel 4
TP 3
ground cloth 8
tent (golite shangri la) 39
iodine 1
stove 11
Fuel bottle 5
cooking pot 9
first aid kit 11
bug spray 1.25
sunscreen 2
compass 2
Camera 8
garbage bags X 4 4
toothpaste 2
Map 1
Total in pack: 271oz/17lbs

[Talewinds]

Wow those GoLite packs certainly are as they claim. My gear is at constant odds w/ itself. I use one of the lightest 2-person full shell tents available, the Black Diamond Lighthouse, but then I stuff it in one of the heaviest packs, the Arcteryx Bora 80. I love that pack dearly but man is it heavy.

That's a well sorted pack list Tishabet.

[AFC-911]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

Just for the record.... That is going to suck big ones....


Oh and if you are hunting Marmots... You should really be wearing Marmot gear...

Yep, a 4,000 ft climb will suck. I did a 2,000 ft climb in under 1 mile for a little over an hour when I was in Alaska & that sucked...

[Tishabet]

Originally Posted by Talewinds

Wow those GoLite packs certainly are as they claim. My gear is at constant odds w/ itself. I use one of the lightest 2-person full shell tents available, the Black Diamond Lighthouse, but then I stuff it in one of the heaviest packs, the Arcteryx Bora 80. I love that pack dearly but man is it heavy.

That's a well sorted pack list Tishabet.

I moved to the Golite this year having first used a Dana Designs Arcflex Terraplane for about 8 years, then a Dana Designs Birdger Overkill for another 8 or so. The Golite is great, but has no frame... so you have to really plan how you pack it so that it will carry well. That said, this summer I have perfected the practice of using my foam pad to give the back some rigidity, and as long as you are light it carries great. Best part of all... I got it for around $65 on closeout from Sierra Trading Post.

I've been trying to convince my dad to get an arcteryx after reading some excellent reviews on their latest packs, he's an external frame guy and has been using the same Kelty since the early 80s... I probably have 500 miles on that pack, my brother probably has another 500 and and I bet my dad has another 1500 easily.

Here's a picture of the old man on the JMT last year with said ancient pack... last year we did 80 miles on the JMT plus an unplanned 20 or so back into the Yosemite valley to pick up our car because the roads were closed from the North due to fires. The guy is 70 and going strong, I got to see a lot of the back of that pack!


Vash, sorry for the hijack!

[porsche4life]

Watch it with the bashing of the Kelty External frames!

[Talewinds]

I don't think anyone would bash Kelty anything... But the days of external packs are over. Packs are getting SO good and SO smart these past several years.

I'd be happy to be hiking ANYTHING at 70. My father turned 63 last Friday and he flew out west Monday to bag some more highpoints, summited Wheeler Peak in NM just today.

[porsche4life]

Whats Wheeler like? I really want to attack it on my next trip to NM... I've done a fair bit of hiking in that area at Philmont... In fact I am hopefully going back next summer.

[Tishabet]

Originally Posted by Talewinds

I'd be happy to be hiking ANYTHING at 70.

Same here, I'm hoping it's genetic

Sidney, you'll be pleased to hear that the ancient Kelty has been to Philmont twice.

[Talewinds]

It's just a hump, similar to Mt. Humphrey in AZ. Just over 13,000ft. Steady gradual grade, class I-II with a bunch of schitty scree toward the top. No permits required to hike or camp. Wheeler is part of the Sangre de Cristo's, a particularly nice range IMO.

We just did Whitney a couple months ago...
Mountaineer's Route:

[Evans, Marv]

Tailwinds,
There is a toilet on the top of Whitney - at least the last time I was up there. Consists of a walled structure with galvanized trash cans topped with thrones. When I was the ranger for that area, I had to call in the Forest Service chopper to fly in empty cans as replacements when those on top filled up & had to be hauled out. Before choppers, the trail crew had the duty of emptying the cans. When they went up there on horses to do that, they would wear tee shirts with "The Brown Bombers" on the front of them. They would dump the cans down the mountaineer's route. But that was a long time ago - not to worry anymore. Vash won't have to worry about anything like that on his trip.

[vash]

ok..back.

some of your advice was spot on!
my pack ended up being 52 lbs. in my excitement, i couldnt sleep the night before (mistake #1), we got up there, checked in with the ranger, under the watchful stinkeye of some deer loving summer volunteer. ranger was cool, lady referred to us as"those bow and arrow killers" (she didnt think we could hear her). the hike in was brutal! we crested 6 hours! i was sucking air! having done this, i will get the pack down light. lighter bag, pad and tent for sure..bivy next time. my jogging saved my life..i recovered fast. after hiking about up there for several days, the hike back up and over was EASY! we blasted back to the truck in 3 hours.

mountain house food..thinking about it makes me dry heave.

next year, i am going in early to cache supplies. and i will run stadiums..do lunges and more squats..my quads were done the first day..i had to stretch alot...

[vash]

mistake #2..forgetting chapstick..

[aigel]

And of course NO DEER???!!!!

G

[vash]

dude..we scouted and memorized movement..opening day, they vanished.

my friend got one..about 20 feet from the "no fly zone". we saw some bruisers. i had to be honest to myself. packing one out would have been a real challenge.

i posted up near a natural mineral lick. hiking to it was a chore. i saw a shooter uphill and moving quick. i scrambled to an intercept point, and for no reason it turned and ducked into the park. safe!

hiking back to the mineral lick..i see SIX bucks..one 4x4. they were at 70 yards, and sending an arrow it would skim the landscape. i left a friend there..why was he not shooting? i held off, watched them run off, and made my way back to find my buddy gone..i felt it was unsafe to send an arrow mere feet over his head...they would have been at 20 yards if i stayed put.

super fun, food was gross, landscape breathtaking. we had great laughs.