New vari-speed pool pump motors - Page 2

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

yikes - my Edison bill is between $20-30/mo. One advantage to apartment living. I don't have the nice backyard and pool though.

daepp · 08-18-2010, 10:18 AM

I really do believe 5 humans adds up. Especially when you have 2 teenage daughters.

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAEpperson

Thanks for the math. I do not know if that increase is just the pool however.

Also, in California we have had huge increases in our electricity rates. Part of my monthly bill is always in "Tier 5" rates, which are at 31 cents per KW.

$0.31/kWh!!! Yikes!!! And I've been complaining about $0.129!!! Well, that explains ~ $100 of your bill.

David · David's Garage

My concern is that algae mainly grows in sunlight so all the running at night doesn't do much good.

daepp · 08-18-2010, 05:05 PM

And where we live on So Cal there is no clock on the meter. If there was, I could so take advantage of it!

idontknow · 08-18-2010, 07:25 PM

A friend of mine installs/repairs pools and he mentioned a problem with VS pumps. Turns out they're very sensitive to electrical surges. He's guaranteed at least 1 call after any large storm with lightning and it's always a dead controller pack. Since they're built in he has to replace the motor.

He installs surge protectors, one at the panel and one at the disconnect box on new installs and replacements to keep the callbacks down. You may not experience the same troubles being in Cali.

Danimal16 · 08-18-2010, 07:36 PM

I put one on my pool and it cut my electric bill in half.

There are a number of issues related to pools that the pool guys do not have a clue.

To minimize your power consumption you must understand the sizing of all of the components. The filter is the key. Use a suction type automatic pool cleaner if you can as the extra motor on the polaris type cleaners is a huge (and I mean a HUGE) energy hog. Those polaris secondary pumps can cost you darn near as much to run as it would take to have a pool man manually clean and maintain your pool.

Another key concept is to understand the concept of pool turn over. You need to size your pool equipment and run the pump to turn the pool over twice a day. The problem is that many pool owners do not understand this and most pool maintenance folks will run the pump daily for eight hours. That seems to be the general rule of thumb for the pool folks. The issue is that the eight hour rule is wrong, it is the twice daily turn over that counts. For example, my little 8000 gallon pool with a variable speed, "soft start" pump and a very oversized filter (cheap) turns over once in about 45 minutes.

With all of that said you can do the calcs yourself based upon the pump curves of the variable speed pump and the size of equipment and volumetric flow rate to get the most out of a pool and save a bundle. My pump paid for itself in less than a year. without the SCE rebate it would have paid for itself in about 15 months.

daepp · 08-19-2010, 07:37 AM

Wow - good advice - thanks!

I know I have a very large filter, but the pool is large too. I think I will have to consult a pro to get the flow info.

Danimal16 · 08-19-2010, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAEpperson

Wow - good advice - thanks!

I know I have a very large filter, but the pool is large too. I think I will have to consult a pro to get the flow info.

David,

You will benefit from these new motor/pump combinations.

Danb

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAEpperson

Wow - good advice - thanks!

I know I have a very large filter, but the pool is large too. I think I will have to consult a pro to get the flow info.

Just go to the pump and write down the info from the motor AND the pump. Then write down the info from the filter, making sure you give up the square feet. Finally, write down the guage reading for back pressure. It will then be about 5 minutes to find the pump diagram and read the flow.

Danimal16 · 08-19-2010, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

My concern is that algae mainly grows in sunlight so all the running at night doesn't do much good.

Check for phosphate build up. If you have alot of birds in your area you will be surprised what it does to water quality.

Joeaksa · 08-19-2010, 03:46 PM

How about running the pool pump on solar panels? I am doing this and really like it, as well as the fact that I can run it all day long in the middle of the day costing me nothing extra.

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

A 1500 watt Solar Panel system isn't exactly cheap, installed. Prices are coming down, but I think it would be more cost effective to put in a 2HP VFD controller

Guccisale · 08-20-2010, 01:15 AM

Thanks for the math. I do not know if that increase is just the pool however.

Also, in California we have had huge increases in our electricity rates. Part of my monthly bill is always in "Tier 5" rates, which are at 31 cents per KW.

daepp · 08-20-2010, 10:14 AM

So how many panels for the pump? Plus an inverter?

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

See here.

The Advantage Solar Power System

$8142 without installation for 1.962 kW peak. It will produce about 250-300 kWh per month, depending on your location.

If I install it myself, and take the 30% tax credit, it is still $5699 to produce $28/mth of electricty. In other places, where the tax credits are higher and the price of electricity is higher, it might pay for itself. Not worth it to me.

Joeaksa · 08-20-2010, 03:59 PM

I am running 10 80w panels, and 10 6v golf cart batteries on mine. Everything sourced used and I have less than $1000 in the whole thing. The tax credit is pretty high here in Arizona.

Running during the day when the sun is out really helps and has done wonders to my electricity bill.

Joe

daepp · 08-22-2010, 09:13 AM

I had an interesting conversation with a pump installer yesterday. After discussing what it would take to make a new hi efficiency vari-speed pump motor interface with our (older) inside controller, he mentioned he was developing a prototype solar setup.

He will leave all the existing equipment installed and ready to go (if necessary, for the spa etc.) but plumb in a new separate pump/motor combo wired to an inverter and 2 to 3 solar panels. He definitely got my attention with that setup - esp because of the expense of making a new pump talk to my indoor controller, and my old pump is only 1 year old.

Joeaksa · 08-22-2010, 11:07 AM

Dave,

Doubt that 2-3 panels would be big enough unless they are the big 200 watt versions.

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

3 panels would be 600 watts. He needs 1500 watts to run a 2 HP pump. It sounds like someone is trying to "up-sell" you an $8K system.

Post the make and model of each piece of equipment.

A 2HP VFD - $232 (240 1 ph input, 3 ph output)
A 2HP motor, 3 ph, 230/460V, $988

The VFD has 3 speed settings built in, which can be controlled with simple contact closures. True variable speed can be set using a variable resistor or 4-20 mA signal. I expect you would use the contact closures.