Help W/ Scanning Photos?

[jyl]

I am in need of guidance.

I'm scanning some old 4 x 6 color prints. Just old snapshots, nothing for professional use. My printer includes a flatbed scanner. I've set it to 1200 x 1200 dpi, 24-bit color, highest quality JPG. After cropping, each 4 x 6 is scanning to a 6 to 7 MB file. That's fine, storage is cheap and I don't have many of these to scan.

But - the scans (viewed on the monitor) do not look like the original photos. They look softer, less sharp, and some of the gradations are lost. Compared to the original print, it sort of looks as if you took a digital image and applied softening and significantly increased the contrast. I was not expecting the scan to be as good as the original print, but the degradation is really noticeable.

What am I doing wrong? I'm going to stop scanning these, in hopes of getting some suggestions. Maybe I should take them to a pro lab?

BTW, I earlier scanned a 8 x 10 B&W using 1200 x 1200 dpi, grayscale, highest quality JPG, into a 19 MB file, and it looks quite acceptable.

[jyl]

Here is an example, although after reducing this crop to upload I'm not sure you can see what I'm talking about, but the original print is reasonably sharp around the woman's face and eyes. The scan is very soft. There's no detail on the lips, hair, etc.

[stomachmonkey]

What scanning software? The stuf that came with the printer? Do you have Photochop? Try a TWAIN acquire in PS.

Is the original sitting dead flat against the glass? toss some paper behind the original so there is more pressure from the scanner lid.

FWIW I don't like the performance of all in ones. They are designed as business machines so productivity/quantity/speed is what they do, not necc quality.

[jyl]

The software w/ the scanner. I don't have Photoshop. Is there a better scanning utility I can use on the Mac?

I'll try the paper trick. Thanks.

[campbellcj]

Play with the color correction and sharpening (may be called unsharp mask) settings in the scanner app. For heavier tweaking you may want Photoshop Elements or similar. Most people don't need the full $600 Photoshop but the core features are in other cheaper options.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by jyl

The software w/ the scanner. I don't have Photoshop. Is there a better scanning utility I can use on the Mac?

I'll try the paper trick. Thanks.

Well we don't know yet whether it's the software/hardware or combination of both.

On the Mac there is an app called Image Capture which should see your scanner.

Try that and see if the results differ.

[GH85Carrera]

The dynamic range on most cheap scanners suck. They are setup to copy a color document, not a photograph. See if you can find a control to lower the contrast.

Do you have a decent digital camera and a tripod. Often those work better than an office type of scanner.

[jyl]

I'll try Image Capture.

We have a copy of Photoshop Elements around here, installed on wife's MacBook, but I probably cannot install it on a second Mac (?)

I did a bit of reading, this site says that when scanning a normal color film print, there's no benefit to using >300 dpi. Make sense? I know the resolution of photographic paper is far less than that of the original negative.
How much can we scan?

[wdfifteen]

Scanning software is a huge part of the equation. Some of it tries to automatically color correct and sharpen, and often does a lousy job. My first stop would be different scanner software. If your scanner only supports its own proprietary software you need a different scanner. We have high end flatbeds in the studio, but for field work I use a Cannon LiDE 200. It cost about $85 and comes with decent software, though I think it supports a number of drivers if you want. Try saving the images as tiffs first, then try having another program save them as jpgs, as jpg converters aren't the same.
BTW, the image below is a beautiful photograph. I had some software that came with my Mac "prepare" it for email. Now it looks like crap, as you can see. You have to be careful with software that purports to do the thinking and seeing for you.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by jyl

I'll try Image Capture.

We have a copy of Photoshop Elements around here, installed on wife's MacBook, but I probably cannot install it on a second Mac (?)

I did a bit of reading, this site says that when scanning a normal color film print, there's no benefit to using >300 dpi. Make sense? I know the resolution of photographic paper is far less than that of the original negative.
How much can we scan?

Adobe are fairly tolerant about 2 installations per license as long as they are not being used concurrently, at the same time. They specifically allow me to install on my desktop and my laptop as they understand a lot of graphics professionals have multiple machines, one of them being a portable work station.

There is no one rule for resolution when discussing printing/scanning.

The one rule to follow is to use a resolution and image size that is 100% of the intended output size.

300 dpi became a default in traditional printing because it was a good compromise.

The rule was 2-2.5 x's line screen. So a 122 line screen was 288-305 dpi. 150 line screen was 300-375 dpi etc... Eventually everyone settled that 300 was sufficient for most print.

In traditional print the 4 colors get screened to produce shades. The screen is comprised of various sizes of dots. Pixels are square. So if a pixel falls partially on a dot it may get eliminated or left in. The more pixels that you can fit on a dot the smoother it will look. There is a diminishing point of return. At some point a higher resolution will not yield a better image.

Photo printers are continuos tone. Meaning there is no dot breakdown so a 100-150 dpi image will have the same quality as a 300 dpi traditionally printed piece.

That all holds true for images used at 100% of size. If you scan a 10x10 at 300 and output it to a 20x20 the resolution gets reduced by half.

If you output the same 10x10 at 5x5 you double the resolution.

Make sense?

[jyl]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Make sense?

Lemme take a Vicodin and get back to you.

[Heel n Toe]

A small tip; when scanning anything that is on a thinner paper (like newsprint), put a piece of black paper behind it... if you use the scanner lid, which is usually white, the light from the scanner goes through what you are scanning, to the white, and comes back through, showing what is on the other side of the paper. Black paper absorbs that light and doesn't let it come back through.

jyl, I don't imagine the prints you're scanning are on paper thin enough for this to be an issue, but if they are a bit thin and there is some light bouncing back through, it might produce a bit of washout effect and obscure some details.

[GH85Carrera]

Virtually everyone uses the term DPI but in reality it is PPI or Pixels Per Inch, the term DPI and PPI are basically interchangeable. Use whatever term is easiest.

What he is really saying is first determine how big do you want the copy to be.

Scan the original to fit that size of output. We scan our 9x9 aerial negatives at 12.5 microns or 2,116 PPI. The makes each image over one gigabyte. We can make a 10 times enlargement with that resolution. Most of the time we don’t make that big of a print so it has super high resolution.

For making a new 4x6 print from a 4x6 print 300 DPI is fine. If you want to make an 8x12 from a 4x6 you will want to scan the 4x6 at 600 DPI to keep the final print at 300 DPI.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by jyl

Lemme take a Vicodin and get back to you.

Sorry.

[Por_sha911]

Some scanner software has an "Auto" setting. Turn that off.
Also, look for check boxes for "de-screening" or "dust (speck) removal" and uncheck all of them.
Either of the above will cause the condition you describe. Unfortunately (as others have stated), it could just be a poor scanner due to all-in-1's are usually used as a copier more than a scanner.

[Eric Coffey]

The best scanning software I've used is Silverfast. You may be limited by your hardware as well. Most "combo"
(printer/scanner/fax/etc.) devices compromise on the scanner quality. You might consider a stand-alone scanner with bundled software. The Epson "Perfection" V700 is a lot of bang for the buck IMO, and comes bundled with Silverfast SE, PS Elements, and Digital ICE. You can usually find them on fleabay for +/- $400. That and some better slide/scanning trays from betterscanning.com and you are GTG.

[jyl]

I'm using the Mac OS Image Capture app. It seems to work a bit better.

Thanks for the education on scanning and resolution, everyone. I need to know this stuff even if it makes my head hurt. I'm just a lot more comfortable with f-stops, dodging and burning.

[911pcars]

I use an Epson Perfection 2450 photo scanner.

Try this link for more info: EPSON 2450 Scanner Test Review © 2004 KenRockwell.com

OTOH, since this scanner is an older model, I thought the current price would reflect that. Also try Ebay.

Sherwood