Coming soon: Sub-$1,000 plug and play PV solar

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by pete3799

Neat idea.
At 15% savings, wouldn't take long to pay for itself.

LOL.

Clarian is hoping to start selling it in the spring at a starting price point of around $799 for one solar panel. You actually will be able to expand up to five panels, Maglague says. That configuration (which gives you 1 kilowatt) would handle about 15 percent of a typical household’s power consumption, he estimates.

1 kilowatt hour is about 12 cents per hour depending on your local rates.

So, if you upgraded to 5 panels for a cost of around $4500 with tax and shipping etc, you could cut your electric bill by UP TO 15%. What's the payback on something like that?

The average U.S. household used 920 kWh a month in 2008. (Dept. of Energy).

The average cost of residential electricity was 12¢/kWh in the U.S. in April 2009 (from the DoE).

Using those numbers (which are very general) the average US electricity cost would be around $110, plus any fees or surcharges.
15% of $110 would be $16.5 per month savings. At that rate the payback would be 22.7 years.
IF you don't factor in the cost of money.

If you financed the system it might never pay for itself as the payback could exceed the useful life of the panels.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

Plugs into the wall, so in the event of a power outage it could potentially backfeed a circuit unless it has a sensor to detect no electricity coming from the other direction. A real danger for utility line men doing repairs.

Let's say 5 hours per day max at 200 watts =1 Kilowatt-Hour at $0.20/Kw-H, you'd need 5,000 days to break even. What's that like 15 years assuming no clouds, rain, whatever.

Hey! That is MY job to be putting dollars and sense into these people. I have a family to feed, and this is like taking food off my table...

[Hugh R]

$0.2275 is what I pay averaged over all the tiers and the surcharges. My top tier, which I hit in the summer due to A/C is more like $0.35/Kw-H.

Sorry, James, here is a virtual $50 dollars for you

[RWebb]

don't assume that electrical rates in the future will stay where they are now

[Hugh R]

I don't assume that they will stay the same at all. But using my numbers, even at a peak rate of $0.35/Kw-H, and 10% sales tax, call it $1,100 even, I'd still need 3,142 Kw-H to breakeven. At say 5 hours/day to generate 1 Kw, I'd still need 3,142 days to or 8.6 years, assuming 365 days/year of sunshine.

Let's say I put the $1,100 in the bank at 3%, I'd generate $33/year simple interest. 1KW at $0.35 that would be a revenue stream of 94 days at 1KW, or about 1/4 of a year. Plus, I'd still have the $1,100 principle.

What would drive me to PV given the current economics of them, is reliability when we start getting rolling blackouts when the states and utilities can't build enough new power plants due to regulatory blockades.

[red-beard]

Hugh, this is exactly what the greenies are counting on. They are using carbon taxes, regulations and executive branch power (Shutdown of 11 coal fired plants in TVA) to increase the cost of electricity.

With $.31 per kWh during peak, which is also when you'd be producing with the panels, at least in the summer, the 30% tax credit and the local credits in California, it actually will pay to put the panels up, if you install them yourself.

It looks like there is a $650 minimum credit per kW installed, for most of California. Some places it is as high as $1550.

A 10kW system has a price of $38K. With the federal tax credit this becomes $26.6. Now take off $6500 for the California credit and you are down to $20K.
The 10kW system will produce 50kWh per day. If this is at $.31 kWh, then this is $15.5/day or about $5650 per year. The system, not including interest, will pay back in 4 years.

This will ONLY work if you have net metering AND you are PAID at the consumption rate for what you don't use.

If you cannot net meter, or the payment is at some reduced rate, you will need to scale the system down to what your maximum usage is during peak hours. Scaling down will be slightly higher than the above example.

For me in Texas, I only get the Federal credit and my electricty rate is fixed at $0.119 per kWh. The above system will take me about 12 years to pay off, with no interest. Without the tax credit, it will take 17.5 years.

For a normal payback of 7 years, my electrcity rates will need to be $.30 per kWh.

So, in summation, Hugh you should get some of your money back while you can...

[Hugh R]

It's tempting, but I live at the end of a steep box canyon. Today, the sun didn't hit my roof until 10AM or so, and was off the roof by 2:45 PM and this is the summer, more or less. In the winter, the sun never hits my roof. I could put panels up on my hill about 500 feet away.

[red-beard]

How much power do you estimate you use during peak hours? Do you have A/C or are you just running just a refrigerator and lights?

500 feet of buried cable will hurt the project costs. But ground mouting will make maintenance and installation easier and cheaper. Again, my numbers work IF you install it yourself. If someone else installs it, especially California contractors, I expect the cost will double.

[RWebb]

[Hugh R]

I have a Black and Decker power monitor, I'm running a few lights, a big screen and central A/C. Right now, I'm sucking 7.3Kw as we speak. However, through most of the day until about 4PM, I was sucking closer to 3.2 Kw and that was with an efficient pool pump running.

[red-beard]

A 2.990 kW system will be $10,307 plus shipping and installation. A 4.140 kW system would be $13,727 plus shipping and installation.

Use the following link to see what incentives beyond the 30% Federal tax credit are available in your area/for your power company.

DSIRE: DSIRE Home

For California

DSIRE: Incentives/Policies by State: California: Incentives/Policies for Renewables & Efficiency

[island911]

HA!, Thanks Webb.



. ..and how the story ends;

[David]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

$0.2275 is what I pay averaged over all the tiers and the surcharges. My top tier, which I hit in the summer due to A/C is more like $0.35/Kw-H.

Sorry, James, here is a virtual $50 dollars for you

That's crazy! How do they justify that pricing?

Houston is about $0.10 to $0.15 depending on supplier. Wholesale cost is about $20 to $40 per Mwh, so about $0.02 to $0.04 per wholesale kwh. Sure it can spike to $1200 per Mwh for a few hours on a congested day, but that's rare.

[Hugh R]

David,

That is only part of the reason I plan on leaving CA when I "retire" in about 8-10 years, that and 9.75% sales tax, 10% income tax, vehicle registration fees of almost $400/year for a two year old Camry, etc.

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

David,

That is only part of the reason I plan on leaving CA when I "retire" in about 8-10 years, that and 9.75% sales tax, 10% income tax, vehicle registration fees of almost $400/year for a two year old Camry, etc.

Put some money down now on a piece of land here in AZ. Would love to have you over this direction! Plus solar is really going hot over here and for good reason. Massive tax breaks and 350 days a year sun!

[Hugh R]

I'm looking at my B&D power meter right now, and it's sucking 2.6 Kw-H, I turned off my pool pump which is only about 5 years old and I got an Edison efficiency rebate on it. It appears to be pulling right about 2Kw. So with two TV's on, a computer 1 or 2 lights a large aquarium and the other miscellaneous clocks and timers, I use about 0.6 Kw. Middle of the night it drops to about 0.2Kw.

I'm going to look into better insulating my attic. That is where my A/C unit and ducts are located. That may well be the best bang for my buck. Joe, you never know. I'd have to go for the high country where it's not as hot as Phoenix.