Someone recently called me a Dry Drunk
 

I was talking to someone who was going thru rehab, and they called me a dry drunk. (I'd never really heard that term) I asked this person to explain, and was told that basically, since I haven't gone through AA, I'm still a drunk because I haven't gone through any emotional changes, and my behavior is still the behavior of an alcoholic, only without the boozing.

WTF????

(My last drink was on 11/20/2008)

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I know I do.

There are many ways to become an ex-drinker or former drinker. AA is one of them, but not the only way. I believe that some AA members get over-invested in their organization and method and don't appreciate other successes.

Best,
Tom

I call BS. If you drink, you are a drinker. There are other behaviors that often fill that need for folks. Only you know if you are healthy.

Congrats on kicking a habit. Not an easy thing to do.
Larry

Did you punch him in the face? I would have....

I don't know you, but you might want to consider what they are saying. I know a fair number of "dry drunks." Often alcohol is just the presenting symptom that is driven by psychological issues. Willpower can stop the drinking (which will alleviate some of the problems that it caused), but if you don't address the underlying issues that led to the drinking, then you'll only get so far. And as Tom said, you don't necessarily need AA to do that.

+1

Congrats on staying sober!

Either that or kick 'em in the nuts.

More than one way to skin a cat, but if whatever issues that drove you to the bottle are still present, I would think relapse or transfer to something else would be a great risk. Next time you see the guy, tell him he just traded the drinking for going to meetings, drinking bad coffee and hanging out with people who smoke too many cigarettes.

Congrats on the strength of will, booze is freakin' poison, bad as cigarettes almost.

I haven't had a drink in about a year either (doctors suggestion) but not a problem, and my job requires me to be in bars & clubs. Don't know what that guy was thinking, I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. Funny thing is most people can't tell the difference..

Apparently AA works for some people (perhaps very few, depending whose data you believe), but there seems to be a heavy 'brainwashing' element to it IMO. The whole thing is based upon the "incurable disease" model and I just do not buy that. You either drink or you don't, and however you get the outcome you desire works for you and that is all that matters, end of story.

A Dry Drunk is someone who has a drinking problem but has for whatever reason has manged to stop.
The key here is "drinking problem"... These people are pretty extraordinary because they have managed to stop without support.

I drink occasionally with friends. So I consider myself a social drinker.

My ex wife is an alcoholic because she drinks to excess every evening... Her behavior always changes for the worse after she's had a few.
I have confronted her about this and she yelled back at me stating there was nothing wrong with drinking and it's just who she is... Whatever :confused:

Some people can drink regularly and it's never a problem. It never affects their work or family life. They don't become aggressive or brazen.
My uncle was like this. He loved his scotch and cigarettes and drank everyday. He was very successful in all aspects of his life.
When he was sick with the flue he would simply stop smoking and drinking until he was better. I remember on one occasion he was sick for nearly 2 weeks.
He stopped smoking and drinking for the entire time without any ill side effects or cravings.
As soon as he was fit again he lite up a smoke and had a drink of scotch just like he always did. He passed away a few years ago aged 78.

What it really comes down to is how do you feel about drinking?
Is it a problem for you? Does it affect your family life or work?

And don't let anybody hang labels on you...

This is excellent advice!

Best,
Tom

Actually I suppose it might be semantics, but I've never considered a "dry drunk" to simply be someone that has a drinking problem but has managed to quit. Rather, it is as indicated by the OP's friend - someone who has a personality defect that led them to abuse alcohol, and has managed to quit drinking, but hasn't done the personal work to get at the root causes for the drinking. Dry drunks often just substitute some other destructive behavior in place of drinking.

I'm not saying that the OP is in fact a "dry drunk," but I also don't think that it is advisable to completely disregard the comment from a friend. Yes, there are AA people who have issues (duh), and AA can lead to cultish behavior. So one needs to take most everything with a grain of salt. But in my experience, if someone is drinking or taking drugs to a point where it negatively impacts their life, odds are there is some underlying set of psychological issues that are driving the behavior. And while willpower can stop a behavior, it can't really cure a personality. Similarly, prescription pharmaceuticals can treat a number of problems, but a "cure" requires a deeper and more difficult dive.

While everyone is different and ymmv, the patterns of addiction are pretty predictable.

nostatic

I understand what you're saying but most of the human beings on planet earth have defects with their personalities.
Some people deal with it some don't... Most aren't even aware that there is anything "wrong" with them.
There are many ways people choose to deal with their issues. Ranging from doing nothing or self medicating to becoming depressed at their inability to take control of their lives.

Even the most accomplished and successful people have issues that could be treated or improved.

The fact that the OP has manged to stop drinking without support is to be commended.
Yes... He may not be perfect but he has been able to make a positive change in his life.

Keep moving forward I say. Do the things that make you feel happy and don't live your life dependent on others for emotional support.

It means you are Presidential.:D


Katherine van Wormer: Bush and Dry Drunk Syndrome

Kratch, you are very bitter, blind, and hyperpartisan. Time to get help.

Oh, oh, I'm screwed. ;)

I have no idea if you are a dry drunk or not, but many Alcoholics can take 10 or 20 years to find happiness after quitting. For many, it can take up to a year for their brain to get adjusted to working without alcohol. Some people still have a craving for alcohol many years after quitting. The actual physical addiction is over in less than two weeks. Presumably the craving should subside after the brain adjusts to sobriety.

Your friend is analyzing you. Another way of putting this is that he is bashing you with the technology. IMO, if he thinks you could benefit from the program, he should simply invite you to a meeting. Of course for an invitation to be sincere, you really should have the freedom to say no.

Are you generally happy ? Are you experiencing a loss of freedom, power or performance in your life ? Are there areas of your life that are just not working no matter how you try ?

What is the dry drunk syndrome? "Dry drunk" traits consist of:

* Exaggerated self-importance and pomposity
* Grandiose behavior
* A rigid, judgmental outlook
* Impatience
* Childish behavior
* Irresponsible behavior
* Irrational rationalization
* Projection
* Overreaction
-----------------------------

I guess I am a dry drunk with a Porsche problem. These traits describe a lot of porsche owners I know.

1. Yes we drive the best car on the road.
2. I suppose driving it is an example of grandiose behavior
3. Most other cars suck in comparison, which is a rigid and judgmental outlook
4. I am extremely impatient when stuck behind slow cars--particularly in the left lane which causes occasional--
5. Irresponsible behavior--nuff said
6. Irrational rationalization- "sure, $15K is normal for an engine rebuild--it will increase the value of the car"
7. ??? but I am sure I have it
8. Overreaction. You want to see over reaction? Hang around with me when someone puts a ding in my door!!!!

My name is Chuck and I am a Porsche addict. (with no real intention of getting better):D

Excellent Chuck. I have the same syndrome. :(

Thanks to all who posted, took the time to address this. Especially thanks to those who offered support.

First off, I have no intention of any retaliation to my friend. This person was in rehab when they used this term, I was supporting them by showing up during visitation days, spending the afternoon, and I know it wasn't used in an inflammatory way.

The thing is, I was introduced to someone else in the program as a dry drunk. I have no problem with my past, don't try to hide who I was, but I was taken aback by the term and the subsequent description when I asked what was meant.

When I got home, I looked up the term on the internet, did a lot of reading. It seems like the concept of the dry drunk was invented by AA, which is stunning to me, it is basically AA saying that if I don't drink their brand of kool-aid, I will never be free from the demons that caused me to abuse alcohol.

Well, that's not how I feel.

I feel like for the last 12 years I have shown up sober. I don't endanger anyone on the road, don't embarrass my friends or family. Have more money, have my wits about me, don't smell like a brewery all the time. The list goes on and on.

It's true that I am not happy all the time but who is? I'm happy a lot. I live a pretty good life, bills get paid, I have nice friends, I'm generally mellow about stuff, but as I always have, I can wear my emotions on my sleeve. I'm getting by and then some, and I don't really need AA to say that they have a better way. It's too bad that in rehabs that use AA as the cornerstone of a life of sobriety, they teach that there is only one real way to that sobriety. . . (and my friend is in rehab for the second time. I'm not judging, just saying)

it boils down to if you are an a-hole when you drink, AND an a-hole when you don't you need to address yer a-holiness.

Guessing here.... friend is a female?

To continue a little, the core-group of friends I had when I drank are still my friends; In a lot of ways, it was as difficult for them to drink around me as it was for me to cork the bottle. 12 years on, though, we don't even notice anymore. I show up at gatherings with a couple of Pelligrino's and some limes, and no one says anything. Its my thing. We all have common interests, alcohol was not the bond. THAT in itself makes me happy.

I hope if I was an a-hole people would tell me. :-)

Interesting observation. Yes..., what did you see?

Some people who go to AA are like born again Christians, insufferable.

Yes, the religion of AA is sometimes hard to take. I know several people that have been helped by AA and sober for many years. AA has it's place but it is not the only solution.

AA is like anything else, you take from it what you need. I agree that some give up one crutch for another., but if it keeps you sober that's ok. My sponsor was over the top like that. I dumped him after a year for somebody with a more real outlook. Sober 25 years now and haven't looked back. But I will say I have had my share of "dry drunk" days. Especially in the beginning.

Nothing worse than a pompous AA member who has guzzled all of their kool-aid. The worst sort of obsessive-compulsives, and the most incredibly intrusive busy bodies you will ever meet. Worse than religious fanatics in their need to constantly deliver their message.

While AA is not a money making organization by any means, their philosophy and methodology certainly has a lock on the rehab business. One would be hard pressed to find a demonstratably worse failure in any endeavour. Their success rate is absolutely abysmal. A good family friend has been in and out of their programs for years; a counselor once confided in her that it takes an average of seven in-patient stays in a rehab clinic for an alcoholic to finally get on top of their problem. Most, of course, never make it back for anywhere near that number of cycles. It's horribly expensive, and most insurance plans won't cover more than one or two stays in a lifetime. Most families won't send a loved one back through after a couple of failures, even if they do have the financial means to do so.

The vast majority of patients at these rehab clinics have been sent there by the courts anyway. It's a real cash cow for the clinics. It's in their best interest to "pass" the court deferals so the courts keep sending them, so all these folks really have to do is be there. They sleep through the classes and counseling sessions and use their newfound circle of friends to expand their contacts for drug (and alcohol, if they are minors) purchases when they get out. They compare notes on which doctors provide medical pot cards, and which doctors prescribe pain killers to anyone who walks through their door and pays for an "appointment". This has got to be one of the biggest shams extant in our society today.

So, when you meet someone who thinks they have been "successful" through this program, it's most often because this program has nurtured their obsessive/compulsive tendencies and re-directed them. They only remain succesful by living it 24/7/365. As soon as they take their eye off the ball, they slip. I just can't believe that is much better than how they had been living. There are better alternatives to the cult-like existance AA expects from and encourages in its members. It's really too bad they have convinced the authorities theirs is the only, or "best" method. It's anything but.

Nice!

Not always easy, but it saved my life. Really. It's just a lot of one days hooked together. As they say..keep it simple. You will have better success if you don't project too far or expect too much. The changes happen, but ya gotta keep an open mind on who you are and were. Honestly it was the single most life changing event in my life, and it was also one of the easiest. All you gotta do is not drink, the rest happens on it's own. As I said before sober for 25 years, but haven't been to an AA meeting in 23 of them. Take what you need and run with it. Rely on yourself to take it the rest of the way. It's your life you don't need a stinking babysitter. Do what you need to do.

I think you have a handle on your life. You don't necessarily need AA to stop drinking and lead a proper life. I stopped drinking Jan. 7, 1982 and attended AA for a while but just couldn't stomach it to be honest. I knew I had a drinking problem and knew I had to stop. I accepted those facts and stopped. I have no objection to sharing that w/ anyone but I don't wear it on my sleeve. Some AA members do and I didn't like that. I also didn't want to have to be under the control of some organization for the rest of my life. I decided to take personal responsibility for what my past was and make necessary changes. Being in sales with basically an unlimited expense account didn't make that an easy task. Some business associates (customer) thought I was a wimp for not drinking. I couldn't do anything about that. Most people (98%) stood by my decision and never uttered a word. The only people I hurt (emotionally not physically) when I was drinking were my wife and son and I have made amends with them.

Every day I try to lead a better life than I did when i was drinking but I didn't feel I had to change my personality to get there. I don't have any reservations about my life since I stopped drinking in fact I have done many things that never would have been possible if I had continued. Most likely if I continued I would have killed myself in an automobile accident, that would have hurt many people, family, friends and possibly others. I have to live with the fact that I carelessly endangered many when I was drinking but was fortunate nothing really bad happened.

I am an alcoholic, always will be but I can live with that. If you think you have a drinking problem, most likely you do. That doesn't make you bad or wrong, it means that you have to address the problem. Sounds like you are on the write track.

Bests of luck!

OK, I think I have it figured out. You need to get a little more information to really understand what your friend meant by the term.

The usual use of the term "dry drunk" is an alcoholic who no longer drinks but acts as badly as he did before stopping drinking. You know people like that when you see them. You would swear that no one could be that mean and nasty without being drunk, but they are. So if she is using the term in that way to describe you, I would be very concerned and see what you could do to change.

It seems that she is using the term differently. She is using it as a term of art, meaning someone who quit drinking and maintains sobriety without any sort of program or formal support network. If that's all she means, let it roll off your back. Although I would insist on her not calling you a dry drunk in front of other people. Most people would take it the other way. If she has a problem with it, tell her that there are different roads to sobriety, just as there are different treatment programs. Each person choses the one that's best for him. What worked for you might not work for her, but she shouldn't question your program or success with it any more than you should question hers.

she sounds like another fanatic with her 12 Steps..

keep doing what works for you..
congrats..

Rika

I think what I took away from what she said, (because it was so matter of fact, I don't think I have demonstrated bad behavior around her) was a curious insight into professional rehab. She didn't say it to insult me, it was just a term to describe my past a little bit. When I looked into it a little deeper I saw a side of AA that I really didn't know. I have no qualm with what they offer - if it works, great, I shouldn't speak about it. I just know that I'm really glad that in my case I have been able to cork the bottle, because I have a tough time with organized spirituality, and I know there is a good chance that I would have resisted - to my detriment.

This person is my friend, and I intend to keep it that way. She meant absolutely no disrespect.

I come from a very long and distinguished line of alcoholics. My one Grandfather drank himself to death and if my other had not gotten diabetes he would have too. My own Father was a knee walking do anything to keep a drunk going guy.
He quit cold turkey at 50. Probably saved his life. My Dad went from hammered ever night to never touching a drop again without any "help" or "program".
I don't consider him to be a dry drunk. He quit and never went back. He never talks about it and he never apologized to anyone for prior behavior, well maybe my Mom , but thats between them.
He does not preach his sobriety to his sons or anyone else that I have known of. A friend went to him once seeking some help on overcoming his addiction problems and my Father told him sorry can't help you I just quit.
I wouldn't call anyone a dry drunk that has stopped drinking. I think it belittles their accomplishment of overcoming an addiction. I would applaud them for facing their problem and solving it.
Now if you where a prick and are still one thats a different matter, but if you don't drink your not a drunk

Steve

Nothing worse than listening to an ex, Catholic, drunk, smoker, married person...

Opinions are worse than farts, everyone has one, they just smell different.

I use to work with a recovering alcoholic... "Larry did you know that's your third beer and we haven't even got our dinner yet"....
..."oh, i didn't realize you were counting... just for that I'm gonna have 3 more..."

I was just about to cut back on my drinking before I read this article: Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers, Study Finds - Yahoo! News

Not so fast guys!

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...mer91/beer.jpg

I'm gonna have to say I think this whole "dry drunk" thing is mostly sour grapes on the part of the AA folks. Yes, I understand there may be underlying issues that lead people to drink. And I understand it is part of the AA process to address those issues in an effort to stop drinking.

But I imagine lots of folks can get their act together, stop or greatly reduce drinking, and fix some things in their life, all at the same time without going to meetings. It happens all the time, in fact.

I dated a gal that was heavy into AA.

I went to a bunch of meetings to see what it was all about.

Like most things they have their good points and I think it works for some people so more power to them.

Yes some AA people are over the top... IIRC the AA motto is to let each person find their own way... however as has been said as flawed people some of them (AA members) can't help but judge others because it is in there nature.

Unfortunately for my girlfriend I read the book and the literature... so when she started lecturing me about going to meetings and getting a sponsor I would come back with "uh, isn't supposed to be my decision? As in if I don't do those things of my own free will the program won't work?"

Some people need the support and structure of the group to get them through their addiction... I have no problem with that.