More on the San Bruno Gas Line Explosion

[daepp]

It was a 30" feeder line - 30 inches. Think about the heat you can get out of the end of lighter the diameter of a pencil!

Caused a 30 foot crater. Caused a 1.3 quake as felt many miles away. Blew an actual section of the huge pipe out of the ground.

81 year old woman who died in the blast was waiting for PG&E to arrive as she had been smelling gas and wanted them to check her stove.

The fire was so hot, when the first engine arrived its windshield cracked 100 yards from the first flames. They then noticed the paint bubbling on the cars around them.

That's some bad ju juj!

[scottmandue]

Wow, very sad

The Associated Press: Woman, child feared dead in massive Calif. blast

[artplumber]

Those shots of that neighborhood are scary. Looks like a part of Nagasaki or Hiroshima...

Do you know where the gas lines are in your town?

[john70t]

Used to drive through there daily. Beautiful area (was). Hope there's something positive out of that mess.

[mattdavis11]

It's mother nature working. I sense the Assembly will be passing new laws requiring more insurance, ultimately lowering revenues and raising costs for all Californians that don't invest in what the insurance co's in vest in.

Gas line explosion insurance? You need it.

I'm sad to hear the news, it's terrible.

[ckissick]

I was pretty upset when this happened. My wife and I have good friends who live near there, Linda and Larry. The first news reports put the blast right at their house. Turned out, the news reports were off by a couple blocks. Linda and Larry are fine, and their house is OK.

I'm surprised a 30-inch gas line was going right down a little residential side street. I would have thought pipes that size were limited to less populated easements. I guess not. There is ample open space just west of there.

[ckissick]

I see one of the victims worked for the Public Utilities Commission. Sadly ironic. Also, a surveyor friend of mine says the San Bruno City surveyor lived right there. He wasn't hurt, but he lost his house.

[mattdavis11]

Wow. They had to know, but did nothing to cut the red tape.

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally Posted by artplumber

Do you know where the gas lines are in your town?

I see that coming. Maps will be made available to the public. Then comes red-lining, reduction in property values, increased insurance, etc. I feel sorry for the folks who discover a pipeline through their neighborhood.

That being said, there could be one running right under my house and I wouldn't know it.

Edit: Found a map. I'm safe...seems to be a high concentration in the Bay Area.

http://www.energy.ca.gov/maps/Natural_Gas_Pipelines.pdf

[sammyg2]

Most folks can't appreciate the power and energy of something like that.

In 1992, the plant where i work now (didn't work there then) had a pipe rupture. It was only a 10" pipe but it was filled with 1800 psig of hydrogen and it went boom.
At the time I lived 32 miles from the plant and I was watching TV and actually felt and heard the boom. 32 miles away.

[azasadny]

I'm guessing that when the gas line was installed, the neighborhood wasn't there yet...

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by azasadny

I'm guessing that when the gas line was installed, the neighborhood wasn't there yet...

You are right. It takes a BIG ditch to bury a 30 inch pipe.

[artplumber]

Originally Posted by azasadny

I'm guessing that when the gas line was installed, the neighborhood wasn't there yet...

I'm sure, but should be part of the disclosures to the first & all purchasers of homes don't ya think? Just like flood plains, termites,.....

[dan88911]

They are saying the pipe was just three feet under ground. WTF, I can hear it now PG&E will up our rates to replace old pipes state wide. Not that it's a bad idea. Its the exact screwin that comes along with it. The "it's not personal it's business" B.S.

[Speedo959]

No surprise here, from what I've heard they treat their gas division like a step-child.

[red-beard]

The reports in the Wall Street Journal are stating that the pipe was welded together from several smaller pieces. This is not illegal, but it is unusual. No indication yet if that was a factor.

I have a 12", 2500 lb line about 60 feet from where I type. No one is allowed to build on top of these lines in Texas.

[slow&rusty]

Originally Posted by mattdavis11

Gas line explosion insurance? You need it.

Not needed, not now, not ever...cost of any damage is the sole responsibility of the Owner \ Operator, in this case PGE. Utility companies carry massive amounts of limits for these types of claims.

Originally Posted by artplumber

Do you know where the gas lines are in your town?

If you want to know where gas lines are around your property, make a free call to ONE CALL (utility locates) and tell them you are thinking about replacing your fence and they will be out within 48-72hours to locate ALL the utilities around your property.

Originally Posted by Danny_Ocean

I see that coming. Maps will be made available to the public. Then comes red-lining, reduction in property values, increased insurance, etc. I feel sorry for the folks who discover a pipeline through their neighborhood.

That being said, there could be one running right under my house and I wouldn't know it.

Edit: Found a map. I'm safe...seems to be a high concentration in the Bay Area.

http://www.energy.ca.gov/maps/Natural_Gas_Pipelines.pdf

Originally Posted by azasadny

I'm guessing that when the gas line was installed, the neighborhood wasn't there yet...

That pdf only shows higher pressure, trunk lines, it does not show the thousands of smaller diameter and lower pressure pipelines that run in alleys, the side of houses, across creeks etc. Many pipelines are so old (50 years and older) that most companies do not have good records on locations and condition and many pipelines are sadly forgotten until they fail..ending in a catastrophe of this magnitude or greater.

Originally Posted by dan88911

They are saying the pipe was just three feet under ground. WTF, I can hear it now PG&E will up our rates to replace old pipes state wide. Not that it's a bad idea. Its the exact screwin that comes along with it. The "it's not personal it's business" B.S.

3 feet is the typical depth for buried natural gas. I just designed 80miles of natural gas in North Dakota and it is operating at 2,000psi and buried at 4-feet.

Originally Posted by Speedo959

No surprise here, from what I've heard they treat their gas division like a step-child.

Originally Posted by red-beard

The reports in the Wall Street Journal are stating that the pipe was welded together from several smaller pieces. This is not illegal, but it is unusual. No indication yet if that was a factor.

I have a 12", 2500 lb line about 60 feet from where I type. No one is allowed to build on top of these lines in Texas.

That is because it is located in an easement, this is typical around North America not exclusive to Texas. Also typical for Electric lines, fiber optic and other utilities. If you built a beautiful garage over an pipeline easement for your nice Porsches, this is illegal and the Pipeline owner legally can show up and demolish it, build you for the time and cost to do so and leave the rubble there...I know as I have done so in the past...it is constant fight or struggle between property owners and pipeline \ utility owners.

This catastrophe in San Bruno is indicative of aging infrastructure systems all over the U.S that includes bridges, roads, buildings, pipelines, sewers...you name it. The EPA \ DOT and governmental agencies are going to tighten the fines, codes and regs for these owner \ operators to have an aggressive and strict Integrity Maintenance Program in place to check infrastructure integrity and health to avoid loss of life, property and catastrophe.

The life expectancy of these systems is up and companies have been neglectful with these old systems as they were concerned with generation of revenue and getting the maximum profit out of them, not it it time to refocus on rehabilitation and public safety.

Yasin

[RWebb]

absolutely - aging infrastructure; just like the earthquake bridge failures and the MN bridge failure, this pipeline was 50 to 60 years old

AND it was on a list of high risk pipelines

sounds like they were reviewing it preparatory to replacement or upgrades but had not had time to do that yet - just like the bridges

you can bet they will ramp up the review & replace timeline now

so it looks we will get some add'l infrastructure spending in the US

not sure, but I may have seen something about the grade of steel used also

[schamp]

I know where a natural gas pipeline is that the company can't run at more that 3-400 lbs per square inch. It blows out if they do. They actually keep a construction crew full time to replace bad pipe. When its uncovered you can push a hole in it with your bare hands.
Consider this, they are now allowing pipelines to be build within electrical transmission line easements. When one of these blows its going to be bad. What these things are is targets. Soft ones at that.
Does a pipeline company send you a calender each year. If so, your within the explosion zone for a pipeline. Turn the calender over, on the back is all the so called emergency procedures. An you just thought the company wanted you to know what day it was.
I wonder what would happen if they pumped the lines up to max design pressure each year. Most of the ones I worked on were pumped up to 1440 psi and left there for a period of time to check for leaks. Thats when they are new. Fill it with water and pressurize. One blew in a small town in Texas back in the late 70's. It blew out just about every piece of glass in the town. That was just using water.

[red-beard]

Somehow I doubt that hydrotesting would cause an explosion.