Who knows about propane heating systems?

[Porsche-O-Phile]

OK here's the deal, the place I'm staying has a propane-fed gas stove as the primary heat source (actually two of them) with electric and a wood stove as backups. There is no natural gas available in this area (too rural). Currently the property owner has an agreement with "Company X" to do automatic refills of a 280-gallon tank that's in the back yard. Problem is, Company X owns the tank and their rates are criminal - at least $1.50 above comparable market rate (I've checked) and more than $2.00 over the best-priced competitor I've found. Because they own the tank however, I can't get anyone else out to refill it and the owner is too lazy to do anything about getting an alternative company out there (he doesn't care what the fuel cost is, since I'm paying the bill for the use).

So what I've done is buy a couple of 100-pound (24 gallon) tanks and am planning on buying maybe two or three more. Then I can feed off of these and rotate them out as I need to, drive to one of several local fuel suppliers (with good prices) and have them filled up again (yes, they're certified and have current date codes, so good for 12 years). I plan to do this continuously through the upcoming winter which will mean I don't have to use any of Company X's propane in the back yard tank at their rape-me price (although nicely, it's there and available in an emergency if I ever REALLY need it). There is a "minimum charge" which I expect I'll hit with them, but it's only about $100, so not a problem. It'll still pay for itself (along with the cost of the tanks I've bought and additionals I'm planning to buy) by the end of this season.

My questions, since I'm not a fuel guy:

- I know for a fact that the lines from the tank, into the house, etc. are owned - they do not belong to "Company X". As such, I'd like to simply tap into the feed and add a couple of shut-off valves. What parts do I need to do this? I figure a couple of "T" NPT fittings, the valves, hook-up hoses, etc.

- Should I hire someone? I hate hiring people to do things I can do myself (and it means I learn something). Is this a DIY thing I can do without potentially blowing myself up?

- Should I use thread compound or is this a metal-to-metal-only type connection?

There is a pressure regulator (I'm pretty sure that's what it is - round thing in line with the hard pipe) already but can/should I make the "T" and valve upstream of that so it will work whether I'm on one of the 100 pounders or the big back yard tank? Do I need a separate one for each circuit?

- Anything else I should check?

TIA.

[cbush]

Makes a lot of sense to me. I would hire a professional to put in the hook-ups for you.

[stomachmonkey]

Hire a pro, piece of mind, liability etc...

Propane makes big nasty boom when it goes.

Photos highlight massive house explosion in Wyoming | KBOI 2 - Boise News, Weather, Sports and Breaking News Boise, Idaho | News

[Paco Anton]

20 years ago my house was in fire due to a propane build up and explosion (power went off, security valve did not work, power came back, a switch created a spark...). My sister got very nasty burns in her legs and spent 6 months in hospital.

Please be careful.

Apparently propane goes down while natural gas goes up.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

The tanks need to be 25' minimum from the structure (this I know). I'm less concerned about the tanks and the stability of the stuff than I am about the plumbing and screwing something up with that if I DIY. All the tanks are certified and have the proper valves on them and all that (I researched this before I bought them). They're as safe as they're going to get.

I suppose I can call someone and see what they'll charge to install it, but as you know most contractors won't even show up on site for less than $500 which starts making the whole project questionable (it'd take another season to amortize that cost and by then we might be out of the place for all I know).

Hooking the tanks up is easy once the hard piped plumbing and valves are in place - not any different than a BBQ grille really. Just bigger tanks. I do want to make sure I do it properly and have the correct regulators, etc. though so there isn't a kablooey involved.

[Mark Henry]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

The tanks need to be 25' minimum from the structure (this I know).

100L stand-up tanks can be right against the house and 6' from an opening door, window, vent or electrical stack. The bigger lay down tanks have to be 10' from the house.

I'd check your local code, rigging something up and you burn the house down you will be liable...if you live.

[flatbutt]

My tanks stand up right next to my house and all plumbing is black pipe. Your idea seems sound to me and you probably could do this yourself but as said the liability is all yours. I did run the pipe for my gas clothes dryer though.

I've been paying between $3.80 and $3.99/gal for LP.

[BK911]

Different size tanks have different restrictions.

If it were me, I would shop around. A lot of propane companies will give you a free year tank rental and really cheap propane for the initial fill, and you can even get a set price that will not go up the length of the contract. So basically it costs you NOTHING (except for the propane) to get a new tank installed right next to the old one.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

OK here's the deal, the place I'm staying has a propane-fed gas stove as the primary heat source (actually two of them) with electric and a wood stove as backups. There is no natural gas available in this area (too rural). Currently the property owner has an agreement with "Company X" to do automatic refills of a 280-gallon tank that's in the back yard. Problem is, Company X owns the tank and their rates are criminal - at least $1.50 above comparable market rate (I've checked) and more than $2.00 over the best-priced competitor I've found. Because they own the tank however, I can't get anyone else out to refill it and the owner is too lazy to do anything about getting an alternative company out there (he doesn't care what the fuel cost is, since I'm paying the bill for the use).

#1, I would call one of the other companies and ask them what the cost is for them to setup a new tank, since you want to switch from the other company. I would then call the one that owns the tank and tell them to haul that POS out of there. You might be able to get Company "B" to do an install before Company "A" is out, so you won't be out of fuel for any length of time.

If I were to do what you are suggesting, I would first ask you what type of pipe exists and can you find a threaded spot where you can disconnect the piping? If yes, then you simply need to shut off the gas, drain the system (turn on the stove until the fire goes out). Then start to disconnect pipes.

You want to be downstream of the flame arrestor/pressure regulator (the round thing). If you can find one, buy a manual 3 way valve instead of a "T". You want to be able to "select" between the two tanks, but not be able to backfeed either.

If you can't get a small three-way valve, buy 3 shut off valves. You only "need" one between each supply and the "T", but I would put one on each feed and one down stream for convience.

I do not know what code is for your State, so check what the correct distance is for the Propane tank from the house. If you have a basement, I would not live in your house until I has a hydrocarbon detector in there to detect buildup of flammable gasses.

[red-beard]

Oh, and I use the yelloe PTFE pipe tape. The white works fine, you just need more wraps. Make sure you test all connection points with soapy water to check for leaks. The special "snoop" stuff works fine, but dish detergent mixed with water works just fine and cost virtually nothing. Use a small paint brush to cover everything. Make sure you cover the valves in case the packing is leaking.

Remember, don't put the soap on until AFTER you pressurize the line.

N-O S-M-O-K-I-N-G !!!

[stomachmonkey]

Hope you don't find out that the landlord is a part owner in, or is related to the owner of Company X, or is getting a kickback.

Red Beard's suggestion is good.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Thanks guys, I'll do some more checking around.

The complication is that we might end up buying this house - all depends on how things are next year when the purchase option comes up and whether we're all still employed and feeling reasonably good about things, etc. then. Or if I just say "hell with this place, it's too cold" by then, which is a possibility also... Although last winter I barely noticed it because I was so busy (running around/inside all the time).

[Danny_Ocean]

Option C: Buy the tank. I told my company to come take their tank after they tried jacking me up on propane price. They eventually sold me the tank and now I can shop around for whomever has the cheapest prices.