Property fence question

[Jays72T]

I'm hoping to get some feedback from anyone who is familiar with property lines and negotiations with neighbors. My MIL has a portion of her back fence that's falling down, partly due to the back neighbor's tree limbs pushing on it. She wants to get this portion replaced but wants to see if the neighbor sharing the fence will pay for 1/2. Unfortunately, she's not on the best terms with this neighbor. If he's unwilling to pay for 1/2, what can we do? Do we have any legal rights to get money out of him? Am concerned that he will also cause problems once a crew comes out to fix the fence as well as if we have to cut a portion of his tree.

TIA,

[Schumi]

Wheres OJU? He will tell you all about fences and property lines. In very colorful commentary.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Baby poo brown is the only acceptable color.

[slodave]

Good luck!

My parents share a fence with a crazy family. Years ago, they put up solar panels on their hillside, about 10' from the fence line. The neighbors (after about 15 years) found out the the property line had been shifted and part of their property was on my parents side. It was apparently a mistake from when the houses were first built. The neighbors took it upon themselves late one night, to take the fence down and bash the solar panels that were on "their" property. Major damage, major $ to fix. Police were called out, parents took them to court.... They never showed, their bit of property that was on our side became ours, but to this day, the papers have yet to be signed by the neighbors. This will make things fun for my parents if they decide to sell first.... To this day, we are blamed for the death of husband. He died a couple ears later - due to stress, bad heart... Whatever.

You have the right to cut down any limbs from neighbors trees if they are overhanging your property... Not sure how to handle the fact that the tree in the pic is pushing the fence over.

[imcarthur]

Fence sharing costs vary by municipality. Here, I know that each neighbor only has to cover 1/2 the cost of a 4 ft chain link fence on the property line. And supposedly the municipality will enforce payment if you are at war. But I don't know how that would work out.

Ian

[Tim Hancock]

I would simply show the neighbor and then ask if he minds if I cut some of the offending branches. Then I would fix the fence. If the neighbor offers to help... great. If not just fix the fence in an afternoon and be done with it.

Of course I do not live in the suburbs and neighbors where I live still tend to deal with issues by talking rather than calling the police or filing lawsuits. Apparently this does not always work so well in all parts of the country.

[A930Rocket]

Maybe the pix don't do the fence justice, but it look like to me the fence is getting long in the tooth and time is taking its toll on it.

[RWebb]

the laws also vary by state, and state law will control over city law, depending

typically, any part of their tree that crosses over the property line (term is encroachment) is "yours" and can be cut off - may look really ugly tho as you'd need to leave a stub over their property

Trees Standing on a Property Boundary are trickier, but looks like this one is clearly on his property with limbs (& roots) coming over onto your property

to avoid the high cost of an atty, find a book by Nola Press called "Neighbor Law"

BUT it won't protect you as well as hiring your own atty, if your neighbor gets ugly about it

you might talk to him & say, "we are going to fix that fence & may need to trim a few branches that come over onto our side"
"would you like us to cut them off at the trunk for you?"
or...
"hi how are ya? say, I wonder if you'd be interested in doing anything about that fence that's falling down in back there?"

I have nice neighbors (with one very bad exception); one of the good ones even let me have a guy come over and trim a branch that was completely on her property (blocking my view) - of course, I'm letting her use a 5 ft. strip of my yard for her garden too, so that helps.

[drcoastline]

The first question is who owns the fence?

If it belongs to your MIL the neighbor can be held liable for the damage. She may also trim the trees that are encroaching on her property.

If the fence belongs to the neighbor it is theirs and do not need to do anything with it. Unless you contact the city. The city can put pressure on them to repair as it may be a code violation or failure to maintain property. Of course if the neighbor finds out that it was your MIL that reported them then relations will sour further.

I would first try and approach the neighbor neighborly first. See if you can come to some type of an agreement.

[slodave]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

Of course I do not live in the suburbs and neighbors where I live still tend to deal with issues by talking rather than calling the police or filing lawsuits. Apparently this does not always work so well in all parts of the country.

Doesn't really matter where you live. Crazy people are still crazy. The family has a history of mental illness. There is no way to reason with them. The son is the only one still living at the house. He is scary to be around when he is in his truck. He freaks out , puts on the hazards, cuts random people off.... We've passed each other on the streets, he does his crazy stuff, I just keep driving. Days latter, I'll be in my parents driveway washing a car... He'll drive down the hill, stop and yell at me for driving all crazy, when it fact, everything he describes, is the way he was driving.

[drcoastline]

Sorry re-read and saw that you said "your MIL's fence".

[ossiblue]

I live in Cal. and have had similar issues. First and foremost, you need to know exactly whose fence it is and a lot survey will determine ownership. If it is on the property line, then you should get clarification from the city as to ownership/legal obligations as some builders divided lots with fences exactly on the line and they were co-owned. If the fence is shared and the neighbor doesn't want to contribute and has no legal requirement, your MIL can simply repair it at her cost or move it ever so slightly onto her property so it is clearly her fence.

If the fence is on you MIL's lot, I suggest she politely approach the neighbor and tell him she is having the fence repaired and ask if he'd like to split the cost. If he declines, she should simply do it on her own. If it is her fence, he has no legal obligation to contribute.

As far as the tree is concerned, yes, she can cut any part of the tree that overhangs her property BUT she cannot cause the tree to die or become diseased from the trimming. If it looks ugly, that's ok but if the tree dies, she is liable for damages. I think the suggestion that she ask the neighbor if she could have access to his property to cut the limbs back to the trunk is a good one. Again, if he refuses, she can cut them at the property line.

[RWebb]

if the tree dies, she is liable for damages only if the neighbor can prove it in ct.

yes, you need to be sure where the prop. line is or just hope the neighbor will not pay $1,000 to a surveyor to disagree with you

see how the costs can add up? surveyors, attorneys...

you could also put a new fence in just a few inches over onto your property

[Bill Douglas]

I think just fix it yourself. Those arn't even proper fence posts so I'm not suprised it has fallen over. Most of it is re-useable as the pailings (vertical boards) and the rails (horizontal bits) are good enough. Run the fence top level, or more or less level, with the left hand side so it runs under the brances.

[Jays72T]

Some great advice and to clarify..while I did say it was my MIL fence, I am not sure about the property line, the fence could be on either property but it does seem to follow the property line, inches matter here though.

I would do it myself, I did our side fence a 2 years ago w/ my neighbor, but have better things to do....get the 911 running, rebuild our other fence, repaint the house...etc.

That picture doesn't really show the trees pushing on the fence but it is a big factor on a portion of it, age and termites have done it in as well.

I will go over there this week and talk to her neighbor after we get a few more quotes, if he puts up a fight then I'll talk about legal ramifications of his trees pushing the fence but hope it doesn't came to that.

Thanks again,

[slow&rusty]

I do alot of this type of work for several companies and here are your only options from a legal \ common sense standpoint.

1) Get a copy of the legal survey for your MIL's property, it will have the Meets and Bounds Legal description and the exhibit showing the actual survey drawing of the property. This is typically kept in a safe place (under the bed or safety deposit box).

2) Hire a surveyor ($500ish) to read the survey from (1) and get him to stake, i.e mark the property lines or boundaries, he might get lucky and find property pins if he has an electronic pin finder. That way you can determine on who's property the fence is on.

3) If the fence is 50%/50% shared i.e on the property line between both houses (which I am sure is the case), approach the neighbor to determine how forthcoming they are about:
(i) Trimming the trees to prevent damage to a new fence
(ii) Sharing the cost of the new fence

4) If the neighbors are not forthcoming about sharing the fence cost, talk to the City or Municipal Planning Dept and see if they will step in to assist, you will be surprised some actually will. Also ask the City Planners what can be done about trimming the trees if the neighbors do not want to trim the trees, has to be phrased in the context that it is a hazard for property damage and personal safety (low lying branches that could fall)

5) If the City cannot help, I would go ahead and just rebuild the fence at the MIL's cost and trim the tree up to the fence, that way it cannot fall on the new fence. Some time it is not worth the frustration to deal with jacka$$ neighbors and you have to just dig in and do it.

The neighbor's might get vocal and rude about trimming "their" trees, but if it is over the property line into your MIL's yard, too bad so sad...

Good luck, let us know how it goes! By the way from that picture, it appears the entire fence in the back yard will need replacing.
Yasin

[rattlsnak]

intersting read. around here, fences cant be built on property lines. they have to be @6" or so towrds the inside. Neighbors can ask for monies to split the cost for the initial build or repairs afterwards, but the fence clearly 'belongs' to somebody and the other neighbor has no ownership and deosnt have to pay a penny for either if he doesnt want to. In this case the tree issue would be interesting, but it would have to be cut and then made to pay the repairs. But as stated above, probably be easier just to fix it yourself and move on..

[Zeke]

The tree may have pushed on the part of the fence that looks the best. The other part is falling INTO the neighbor's yard. And it looks from the gray that a sprinkler has caused most of the damage. I'd say it's a joint liability and th neighbors should seek the best and economical solution.

If that doesn't work, then one owner needs to do only what needs to be done to secure the yard.

There is a lot of neglect shown in the pic from both parties. Why start pointing fingers now?

[stomachmonkey]

I've shared fences with neighbors.

When I bought my 1st house it was fenced on the left and right sides, the back was open as there was nothing but woods back there.

Had Terry who lived on one side and John on the other and each had originally erected their respective fences.

Terry had planted a row of evergreens along the property line so when he put up the fence he put it on his side of the trees effectively giving me 3-4 extra feet of yard space. The trees had been there 20 some odd years and were tremendous. The lower branches spread 15-20 feet into my yard reducing my useable yard space. One day I go out to trim them back. My plan was to go 10-12 feet up so I still had a nice canopy but got some yard space back. My wife is out there approving my plan when Terry comes out. We say hi and I start to tell him what we are up to when the wife chimes in and in typical female fashion completely miscommunicates the plan leaving Terry with the impression that we want to take the trees down entirely. Naturally he flips out a bit teling us we can't do that because they are his trees and are on his property. I correct the communication and he responds, "that's fine with me, need some help?"

On Johns side the fence had started leaning towards my driveway. Was caused by footing on my side starting to give way. I get a bunch of railroad ties and am shoring up that section on my side when John comes out. I tell him what I'm doing and he thanks me then asks how much is his share. I tell him nothing as I was planning on putting in plant beds at the same time so fixing his fence issue was a by product of that anyway. The fence did need some help in other areas and he wanted to replace all 200 ft of it but being retired and on a fixed income it was a little much for his budget. So I told him to get some quotes and let me know how much my half of the bill would be.

Reasonable people can co-exist if they want to.