How It's Done @ 1,000 Yards

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Drdogface

Jeff

We always looked for and hoped for round holes in the target. Bullets that don't tip over leave oval looking holes. That was one advantage of our Paul Jones mould cast 38-70 bullet. This bullet also had narrow and shallow grease grooves which aided the ballistics greatly....nice round holes punched in the paper. Perhaps you have heard of Dan Theodore...he designed that bullet and many others which are proven winners.

After working the pits a while you could really almost call the score by looking at where the bullet hit the berm behind the target....fun stuff.

Oh yeah, I remember Dan Theodore from the old BPCR board on Shooters.com before it went under. He created a great deal of controversy with his development of the .38 as a long range caliber. It's been awhile, but from what I recall he had unearthed some rather dubiously pedigreed .38 that may or may not have been historically correct and, therefor, legal. He was into boat tailed bullets, claiming there were "historically correct" as well, again citing some rather dubious sources. Classic gamesman, looking for every mechanical or equipment advantage he could.

BPCR was alway supposed to be a haven from those folks, who managed to ruin so many shooting games. "Practical" pistol is now anything but, "hunters'" silhouette became anything but (but is fighting back), and on and on. BPCR has always had "match director's discretion" over the "spirit of the rules". If I remember correctly, Mr. Theodore lost a lot of those arguments and eventually took his ball and went home. There are certainly places for what he was doing, but one of those places was never on the firing line at a match with other shooters trying to emulate a specific era. He never seemed to understand that.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by ODDJOB UNO

now let me ask you this????????? why do african dangerous game rifles come with IRON SIGHTS????????

Real African dangerous game rifles come with iron sights because they are meant for close in work. Period.

They have iron sights for that reason and that reason only. All of your ranting above is inapplicable to your question.

[Rednine11]

I have a 50 BMG it is expensive to shoot but its alot of fun. I will try to post a picture later

[Rednine11]

here is mine..just got it out to take this pic

[scottmandue]

I know nothing... NOTHING...

Living in the big bad city where it is over an hour drive to get to somewhere you can fire a high power rife I know very little about such things.

However I LOVE reading about ballistics and these threads about long range shooting (especially Jeff's posts).

On a similar note I love the bicycle threads where you guys go on for pages about every nuance of a high tech bicycle. Whereas after ten miles on my Schwinn I'm winded and ready for a hot shower and a cold beer.

[ODDJOB UNO]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

Real African dangerous game rifles come with iron sights because they are meant for close in work. Period.

They have iron sights for that reason and that reason only. All of your ranting above is inapplicable to your question.

hell im just gonna sell my (2) safes full of spoons and take r2d2esq along and HE can shoot everything i wanna shoot for the rest of my life.



r2d2esq , what the hell is it LIKE walking on water like you do?

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by ODDJOB UNO

hell im just gonna sell my (2) safes full of spoons and take r2d2esq along and HE can shoot everything i wanna shoot for the rest of my life.



r2d2esq , what the hell is it LIKE walking on water like you do?

Well, it should be obvious that owning something and understanding something is entirely different. But, apparently not to you.

If you think that your logic was correct in your sniper rifle diatribe that ended with the African dangerous game rifle question, then lay out the logic path.

After you fail at doing that, then answer this question.

oddnutjob, what the hell is it LIKE being as ignorant as you are?

[ODDJOB UNO]

[QUOTE=RPKESQ;5639809]Well, it should be obvious that owning something and understanding something is entirely different. But, apparently not to you.

If you think that your logic was correct in your sniper rifle diatribe that ended with the African dangerous game rifle question, then lay out the logic path.

After you fail at doing that, then answer this question.

oddnutjob, what the hell is it LIKE being as ignorant as you are?[/QUOTE


r2d2esq...............my ignorance comes from literally crates of empty wooden ammo boxes of spent shells and personally knowing mike dillon and machining his reloaders, knowing personally rock mcmillian who aside from custom rifles has (20) CNC machines building dillons mini gun parts, and knowing dick davies the prod. mgr at mcmillian who has built (2) of my rifles(M40-A1 and M-70 .338) and (2) of my stocks.


now considering i sold them quite a few $$$$ in precision tooling , had my rifles and stocks built there, i kinda have a real glimpse of what goes in, and what comes out of there. and every african game rifle has IRON SIGHTS and a 1 X 4 or 6 scope with QD(thats quick detachable) scope mounts in the event of a scope failure.


now all i was saying in my "diatribe" is most CLOWNS like YOURSELF rely on technology to shoot at distance. but for those of us who were TAUGHT correctly, you must 1st master your iron sights out to 1000 yds before learning your "come-ups" with a scope.


now considering i have (3) 1000yd spoons and i know im a hell of alot older and wiser than you and have been doing this since i was 18.....................


its obvious to me and the world..................YOU couldnt hit the broad side of a BARN let alone a donkeys ASS(you) at 1000yds with a freeking HOWITZER!



hmmm why is every alaskan rifle built with iron sights and a 1X4 or 6 scope with QD scope mounts also????? be it bolt, be it semi, be it lever action.



cheese and rice r2d2esq do you hunt with king louis the "sun king", or donald duck and GOOFY?



do you like wear "pant a-loons" and frilly sleeved shirts when you hunt?


do you wear WIGS?


do you wear shoes with buckles on them?


do you like have a frog speaking EUNUCH that hands you the (1) bullet as the mighty cape buffalo charges you? do you like hunt with .500 NITRO's?


or do YOU just sit there and pull on yer puny lil french pud and start crap here every chance ya GET!



did your boy beeeattch "MONTE" tell you to ONLY hunt dangerous game with sights or without sights? with a scope or without a scope?



you really really really REALLY NEED TO GET OUT OF THAT DARK ROOM illuminated by only your puter screen and see what the world is all about and how us ignorant hillbillys can OUTSHOOT "those who walk on water with SUN KINGS."



your a joke and a stroke.

[dhoward]

RPKESQ is correct on the iron sights though.

[Jeff Higgins]

The term "iron sights" covers an awful lot of territory. Match sights suitable for leisurely 1,000 yard work are far, far different from open "express" sights meant for fast 50 yard work. These two purposes reside at polar opposite ends of the "iron sight" spectrum. One could no more hunt with long range match sights than one could compete at long range with express sights. There are a good many designs that fall somewhere in between, being useful for both hunting and informal, closer range target shooting.

[dhoward]

Forgive me.
Iron sights on large caliber dangerous game rifles.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by dhoward

Forgive me.
Iron sights on large caliber dangerous game rifles.

Oh no, that wasn't directed at you - I was actually agreeing with you, and Richard, and Chuck. Everyone is right about the particular iron sights they were referring to.

My shooting has actually come full circle with regards to my sight preferences. I started out learning on irons, just because my mentors all thought that was important. They all thought "anyone can shoot with a scope" (they were wrong, of course) and that the fundamentals were best learned with irons. After "growing up" and graduating to scopes for most uses, I have now returned to irons for the vast majority of my shooting.

The scopes that do remain in the inventory are pretty much all 1.5 to 4 power or fixed 2 power. The rifles that they are set up for typically don't wear them, although they can be re-mounted in a pinch. I have one "varmint" scope, a 6.5 to 20 power, mounted on a custom #1 in .220 Swift, that must stay on the rifle, which lacks irons. Pretty much everything else is shot with irons all of the time.

I can't shoot as small of groups with irons as I can with scopes. Once load development is over, however, that point becomes entirely moot. I can hit from field positions just as well, just as quickly at ethical hunting ranges as I can with a scope. Huge bonuses are a rifle that is far easier to carry, far less prone to damage, and there is no glass to collect rain drops or fog up in our Northwest climate.

Those of you who scope everything should give irons a shot (pun intended...). As mentioned earlier, there are irons for every purpose, and many that fill several roles. I particularly like the XS Sight Systems "ghost ring" peep sights for general field use. Give it a try - you might be surprised how well you can shoot.

[dhoward]

Love ghost rings.
I also developed quite an affinity for a williams blade sight on an XP 100 7mmBR. Really fun to 200m (the limit of my vision) off of a modified Creedmore.

[Jeff Higgins]

I have the Williams (and Lyman) peep sights on a couple of rifles. They are a little more versatile than the XS, in that the aperture can be left in for fine work in good light, or taken out, making for a great "ghost ring" setup for hunting in the woods in dim light.

[enzo1]

thanks guys, I learned something! Cool