Cessna bans ethanol fuel from all it's aircraft

[James Brown]

Service letter SNL10-5 (yeah May, just slow here) states that after testing ethanol based fuels, they are not a alternative for 100LL fuel. In fact they say that operational safety may be compromised by the use of ethanol based fuels.
Now that ALL fuel in Washington State, as with many states, where do you guys get auto fuel for your STC approved aircraft that DOES NOT contain ethanol?
Cessna tests reveal the ethanol eats seals, gaskets, O-rings, increases internal wear on fuel pumps, corrodes ferrous compounds, forms salt deposits on screens, dissolves large quantities of water in the fuel system compromising fuel quantity indications.
If they don't like it, I don't like it. (E-10 in my car now)

[rattlsnak]

Sounds like you need to use 100LL.

[Tim Hancock]

Ethanol makes my blood boil (and can help cause gas to boil in some aviation applications causing vapor lock). For many years I enjoyed filling my airplane with car gas from my 300 gallon storage tank. A couple years ago, the distributor who delivers my gasoline informed me that he could no longer buy non ethanol containing fuel here in Ohio. I do not fly nearly as much anymore as I have to pay up to $5/gallon for Avgas now. On top of that, the Enviro wackos have forced the gasoline producers to add in some really awful additives to car gas that results in horrible deterioration after only a couple months. In the past three years I have dealt with at least 10 cases of clogged pilot jets in carburetors of seasonal use engines. Back in the 80's and 90's, I did not have these problems in the same vehicles.

Stabil will not necessarily help anymore.... Just this year, I have resorted to draining nearly all my seasonal use items (multiple dirt bikes, street bikes, cars, snowmobiles, chainsaws, weed eaters, generator, pumps, lawnmowers, tractors, bobcat, jet skis, etc) and refilling with very expensive Avgas then running each unit to insure that the fuel systems are primed with the long lasting non gumming Avgas.

I keep hoping enough people will figure out that the current crop of ethanol plants are financially non viable without govt subsidies and demand change, but I am not holding my breath.

[Tishabet]

The antique car guys are up in arms about ethanol creating vapor lock problems in warm driving conditions and eating up pump components etc which are not designed for anything but gas. I know some guys who have been cutting their gas with kerosene just to try to get the vapor potential down... what a pain. I finally broke down (quite literally, several times) this summer and installed an in-line pushing electric fuel pump in my Buick.

[pwd72s]

Ethanol raising havoc with marine engines as well. IIRC, Oregon allows exemptions for Marine engines and AvGas...also non ethanol racing fuels are still available. All expensive.

Agreed, ethanol is a giant fraud foisted on an ignorant public...

(edit) 2 stoke engines also suffer with ethanol...my logger friend buys race gas to mix with 2 stroke oil for his chain saws.

[turbo6bar]

What happened to the guy who planned to write an Iphone app pinpointing gas stations selling ethanol-free gasoline?

[Zeke]

Sounds like a conspiracy to get rid of old cars on the road. But I sure don't want planes falling on me. I get a few dozen a day. don't up the chances.

[widebody911]

I'd really like to know when I'm getting ethanol; I started having problems with vapor lock on my VWs this summer. I've never had it before.

[The Gaijin]

The usual creep of lobbyists and special interests. It was supposed to be a cold weather substitute for MBTE - or what ever that nasty ground water polluting chemical was.. And that for EPA designated counties with winter air pollution problems. It may actually have some use - somewhere..

Now it is in all street gas - all the time.

That would have got away with it, until the pushed that E-85 **** onto us. Then it was revealed to be the great ethanol scam.

Another taxpayer funded boondoggle - propped up by consumers.

[Dantilla]

My airplane sees nothing but 100LL. The 911 sits for most of the winter, so I usually store it with 100LL. Just found out there is a local off-brand gas station near me that sells alcohol-free gas. I'm going to fill the 911 pretty soon and suspend insurance coverage for a couple months.

[porsche4life]

In OK you can still get the real deal... And all the stations are marked as to what they are selling! The only thing I run E10 in is the Corolla... It can't be killed after all....

[red-beard]

How possible is it to turn some of these small planes into turbo props?

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by widebody911

I'd really like to know when I'm getting ethanol; I started having problems with vapor lock on my VWs this summer.

Look on the gas pump for stickers like this:



You're probably getting 10% ethanol almost every time you buy gas. I'm pretty sure the seller is required to display the stickers.

[James Brown]

Small turboprops are around $100k range and go up from there. The problem is none of these aircraft are certified to have a turboprop installed unless there is an STC issued by the FAA and I know of only one company that makes turboprop conversions for a Cessna 172/182. And there charging BIG bucks for it. You can make your aircraft experimental and try any engine you want but you can never switch back. My choice for aircraft in the future is a Piper Malibu Meridian.

[john70t]

Shucks, for pilots there's no harm in a vapor lock or twwwwwwwwwww...........

[Tim Hancock]

The scariest vapor lock scenario is landing somewhere on a hot summer day then departing a short time later after the engine compartment is totally heat soaked. Moments later while climbing out (low and slow) over a densely populated area the d@mn thing quits and you end up going down into multistory apt buildings.

[cashflyer]

I'm glad to see that Cessna is making it an official statement, and I expect the FAA will come out with similar notices soon. Too many people think "gas is gas".

I just lost a fuel pump to crappy gas in my seasonal car, and had not thought about Tim's solution. I will drain it and run some avgas next time. Now that cold weather is getting near, I should do that with my mower and weedeater too.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by James Brown

Small turboprops are around $100k range and go up from there. The problem is none of these aircraft are certified to have a turboprop installed unless there is an STC issued by the FAA and I know of only one company that makes turboprop conversions for a Cessna 172/182. And there charging BIG bucks for it. You can make your aircraft experimental and try any engine you want but you can never switch back. My choice for aircraft in the future is a Piper Malibu Meridian.

The engine or a whole aircraft for $100K

The Briggs and Stratton engine seems to be OK with the Ethanol. But both of my Honda engines and my Dad's Pressure washer as not working right. They all need new carburetors.

[VINMAN]

Huge problem for the boating community. Alot of boats have F/G fuel tanks, and the ethanol is dissolving the gelcoat and the tanks are literally falling apart. Plus it is destroying the rest of the fuel system.
I had the replace all the fuel lines and seals on my Waverunner last yr, they turned to mush. The pickup lines in the tank actually fell apart and stranded me.

[EarlyPorsche]

I remember when Bush decided to go 10% ethanol to help corn farmers (and likely his distiller friends) while also reducing our dependence on foreign oil by 10% - all I was thinking was "but what about the old carbureted stuff!"