Desktop Computer

[RWebb]

thx, James - I'll run down your new post...

[YTNUKLR]

Originally Posted by RWebb

motherboard & video card above NLA

not sure what I need to know to match things up & not sure I want to take the time to figure it all out...

see post #34 and 32.

PC Connection Express - Detail

The 2.5" Laptop SSDs (Solid State Drives) drop in to this otherwise unassuming little box. RAM upgrade to 5GB (1x4GB, 1x1GB) is about $90 from NuRam.

I have Intel X25E-64GB SSD and 5GB RAM...I think I spent ~$1100 and it smokes my new i7-Quad core Dell at work, because the Dell still has a standard hard drive. My Mac boots and is ready to use in 15 seconds and everything feels positively instantaneous. It is a delight to use. I admit, though, I really needed a Mac for its OS and software development platforms (iPhone) rather than the best hardware money can buy. You can get faster processors, faster RAM, etc., etc.

Some will balk, the CPU is not good enough, there is not enough RAM, there is not enough H.D. capacity, it's overpriced...

-The Intel C2D 2.4ghz CPU almost never spends any length of time at full capacity. The bottleneck in slow computers is not the processor.

-5GB is more than enough RAM. Even though it's 1066mhz, it's DDR3. Even when I am really working on the computer hard, it never pushes over 4GB utilized.

-For my media storage, I have a separate 500GB-7200rpm external drive. I have no lag accessing any media files or documents.

Applications, programs, launch, and "feel" is simply what you always imagined a modern computer should be. I credit this to Apple's efficiency in software resource management but MOSTLY this is about the Intel Extreme Series SSDs, which are small but will blow your RAID system into the weeds.

Additionally, you can put Windows 7 onto the Mac, with no real fuss (Boot Camp or virtualized with VMWare).

"Overpriced" is in the eye of the beholder. I use MATLAB, SolidWorks, ProEngineer, Pro Tools on my PC. I also use Logic Studio, MATLAB, Final Cut Studio, and Photoshop on my Mac. The ability to have everything work quickly, properly and with minimal hassle in ONE machine is priceless to me. I cannot be bothered to spend two weekends putting together and setting up a PC in parts that you have to QC yourself. I have friends in CS from college that put their own computers together, it is always a hassle and they complain they have had to send back the damn mobo or something 3 times to get one that works. My time and lack of frustration with an appliance is worth a lot to me, perhaps too much, but I don't just look at a number on the page when I buy something, I look at the whole experience of how I am going to get the thing to work how I want it to.

[red-beard]

Scott,

The 4GB of RAM is 1333 and it is $49 and only uses 2 of the 4 slots. He could go to 8GB for $98.

I can see using a SSD drive for a fast boot, but the price still is very high. 64GB isn't a lot and they are $120 for a good one. Kingston has a 128MB unit for $170 (including rebates). Again, still very pricey. Any idea on the life of the SSD drives? I know they are only good for a certain number of read/writes before the sectors start to die.

As far as QC is concerned, knock on wood, I've built 4 machines recently and haven't sent anything back yet.

[widebody911]

I have a bunch (64, to be exact) of blade servers with SSD drives; they've been hammering along for a year-and-a-half so far, no problems (knock on wood).

[YTNUKLR]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Scott,

The 4GB of RAM is 1333 and it is $49 and only uses 2 of the 4 slots. He could go to 8GB for $98.

I can see using a SSD drive for a fast boot, but the price still is very high. 64GB isn't a lot and they are $120 for a good one. Kingston has a 128MB unit for $170 (including rebates). Again, still very pricey. Any idea on the life of the SSD drives? I know they are only good for a certain number of read/writes before the sectors start to die.

As far as QC is concerned, knock on wood, I've built 4 machines recently and haven't sent anything back yet.

I meant the Mac mini that I posted the link to. It uses 1066Mhz / DDR3 / 204-pin SDRAM. The Mac Mini has only two slots, but you can get 2x4GB=8GB in there.

Here is the link to what I meant:
NewerTech® NuRAM Memory PC8500

Re SSDs: Boot time is insane; turning on my computer is like turning on a microwave. Yes, the price is VERY high, I do admit. BUT, I am saying money spent on a hard drive is WAY better than money spent on RAM or CPU upgrades; I did all the upgrades with my last computer (PC) and honestly couldn't say it was worthwhile. The SSD blows me away because there is NO LAG anymore when selecting new software instruments in Logic, for example (loading a large plug-in). Ultimately for ~$1,100 I would rather have a basic computer (Mac Mini) with a top-shelf hard drive (Intel SLC SSD Extreme line) than a $1,100 computer with a HDD drive and better CPU, RAM, etc. You may not realize how time your computer has to seek to find some data you are requesting. Until your computer reads your mind and puts your next intention into RAM, the SSD is your next best option. It really is a must-have, I don't think you will bother with quad-core processors or 12GB of RAM once you've used it...

More on SSDs: there are two types, MLC and SLC (Multi/Single Layer Core). There are also all different brands and ranges of quality of the memory controller. Besides the memory controller, an SSD is simply an array of flash memory chips (they look like a board of RAM all connected).

MLC drives are probably not worth it. Lots of issues, time spent reloading your data is not time well spent. The performance degrades quickly, and ultimately they last about 1/3 the time of a nice SLC drive.

SLC drives: generally better memory controllers and memory management. Performance stays high (only minor degradation over time). Mean lifetime is something like 230 years for the Intel drive I bought (simply off the charts).

The problem is not that the memory blocks themselves become corrupted, it's that the memory controller "thinks" there is an entire block occupied, when in fact it is only partially occupied. The drive ends up with a bunch of partially filled blocks and the memory controller thinks the drive is completely full. You deal with this by reformatting the drive and then it should be OK again. SLC drives don't really have this problem; the memory controllers are much better

[foxpaws]

Originally Posted by RWebb

1. Will I need a wrist loop? I'll likely need to do it in a carpeted room.

I live in a Mac World - however, this sounds like fun... I now have to wonder what I have been missing by not going to the dark side...

[RWebb]

- I can't run everything I need on a mac (would also have to buy new software) - I am just waiting to meet a nice young woman with a Mac... you know, as an intern. Then I can evaluate how much of my stuff I can "run" on her system.

- Solid state RAM would definitely be a holy grail, but I keep seeing posts re problems cropping up on zdnet and other sites. To me, the hardware is just a platform to run my data thru software... my data are much more valuable than either.

- Will 8 Gbyte of memory speed things up much? I noted the 4G and the (now) low price for these chips.

[RANDY P]

Originally Posted by RWebb

It's time for a new desktop - the old one (Dell Dimension 8300) is showing signs of old age.

I need to run a GIS (computerized mapping system) and that's about the only really demanding thing. It already runs on the Dell box, albeit slowly for some tasks.

I need about 600 Gbytes of storage, which shouldn't be too hard to get these days.


What should I get?

I'm for anything that keeps you off the internets.

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

[foxpaws]

RWebb - with an emulator (I like Parallels) we can probably run all your 'stuff'... Even with a wrist loop attached, and doing it on the carpet...

But, as always, if you are going to bump - bump the memory -

[RWebb]

I have some stuff that won't run on anything past Windoze ME (!)

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by YTNUKLR

Re SSDs: Boot time is insane; turning on my computer is like turning on a microwave. Yes, the price is VERY high, I do admit. BUT, I am saying money spent on a hard drive is WAY better than money spent on RAM or CPU upgrades; I did all the upgrades with my last computer (PC) and honestly couldn't say it was worthwhile. The SSD blows me away because there is NO LAG anymore when selecting new software instruments in Logic, for example (loading a large plug-in). Ultimately for ~$1,100 I would rather have a basic computer (Mac Mini) with a top-shelf hard drive (Intel SLC SSD Extreme line) than a $1,100 computer with a HDD drive and better CPU, RAM, etc. You may not realize how time your computer has to seek to find some data you are requesting. Until your computer reads your mind and puts your next intention into RAM, the SSD is your next best option. It really is a must-have, I don't think you will bother with quad-core processors or 12GB of RAM once you've used it...

More on SSDs: there are two types, MLC and SLC (Multi/Single Layer Core). There are also all different brands and ranges of quality of the memory controller. Besides the memory controller, an SSD is simply an array of flash memory chips (they look like a board of RAM all connected).

MLC drives are probably not worth it. Lots of issues, time spent reloading your data is not time well spent. The performance degrades quickly, and ultimately they last about 1/3 the time of a nice SLC drive.

SLC drives: generally better memory controllers and memory management. Performance stays high (only minor degradation over time). Mean lifetime is something like 230 years for the Intel drive I bought (simply off the charts).

The problem is not that the memory blocks themselves become corrupted, it's that the memory controller "thinks" there is an entire block occupied, when in fact it is only partially occupied. The drive ends up with a bunch of partially filled blocks and the memory controller thinks the drive is completely full. You deal with this by reformatting the drive and then it should be OK again. SLC drives don't really have this problem; the memory controllers are much better

On these drives, are you using the SATA and SATA II controller or are you using one which is built into a PCI-e card?

[sammyg2]

I use a 486SX with 4 megs of ram and it works grea

[RWebb]

ok, $655 for the guts

[RWebb]

oops, thx sammy - I missed your post and got 8 M - I doubt it will do any harm, and we know the software weevils can eat thru any hardware if you let them...

[RWebb]

Stuff arrived today. Looks like the power supply is already built into the case.

Any thoughts on a good DIY computer build site??

[RWebb]

not off to a good start - the case appears to be riveted together & I can't figure out how to open it up

all the screws are out but it still won't come apart

[TimT]

You slide the sides off..they are an interference fit...if you have the case facing you, take the left side off,by sliding it to the rear....

usually no need to remove the right side...

The lay the case down on the right side, and mount the mother board, and, and,and ,and ,and

[RWebb]

I got one side off - I would not exactly call it an interference fit

tho I can see how they were aiming at that

beating & shaking, together with some adroit use of a screwdriver got it done

[red-beard]

Randy, the case I picked had a power supply. Did you substitute a different case?

[RWebb]

no - I found it - they are smaller than I remember (which means I'm getting old...) and it was "hidden" behind the fan

case = Pixxo CX-5C59 Black ATX Mid Tower Computer Case


for others doing this:

newegg has a a facility to get info on the components, many of which come with no instructions:
go to My Account; open it and select your recent order, open that; and click on the side of the component you are trying to figure out; go to:
Manufacturer Product Page or one of the other things

right now, I'm trying to determine what cables to plug into the back of the WD Caviar HDD
- it has to want a power cable (attached to the power supply) and an information cable (Serial ATA I'd guess, which is about 1 cm wide and yellow).

the HDD has other connections on it too - I dunno if they are duplicative or need some other cables