A Quandry Wrapped in a Paradox - Job Advice Needed

[onewhippedpuppy]

So about one month ago I switched jobs, primary motivation was the lack of pay and promotion because I genuinely enjoyed the job. The new job wasn't as interesting, but there was a slight raise and the company is more secure. Quite frankly I hate my new job, it's a mundane desk job driving metrics and updating databases, not at all what I expected. Basically the most boring parts of program management, with no real visibility or authority. Also no real technical content, which I miss (I'm an engineer with management aspirations). The upside is that it's a true 9-5 type job with little stress, which bores me but my family enjoys.

In the meantime, my old company has now offered me a position with essentially the same pay as the new job but substantially more authority. I would be the test operations manager on my old team, managing three test aircraft with three direct reports. This would be my first official management position, doing dynamic work that I enjoy and already know well. My biggest hangup is the fact that I know the job is worth far more, and the previous person was making much more money. I would also be working a lot more hours as well as traveling more. On the upside it would be a big step up in the company so I would have lots of leverage to angle for a promotion, as well as look good on a resume. For a bit of perspective, the previous person doing this job had 20 years of experience in the industry, I have 4.

So I'm stuck in a tough spot. I can take the job with my old company which I know I'll enjoy, but I'm getting screwed on pay. I also know that leaving my current company after 6 weeks will burn some bridges. On the other hand, I can keep my current job which I hate and hope that it either gets better or that I can get re-assigned to a different role. I'm fairly new to this industry so I hate to burn bridges, but I also feel that I need to take any opportunity to advance and grow. Thoughts?

[PorschePilot]

Work is such a big part of life that the more you like your job, the better your attitude and mental state will be. The drudgery of your current job will grate on you as time go on.

My 2 cents is to make the change.

[sscates]

I would go with security first, quality of life second. Assuming the job description that you got hired for is different than what you are doing, I would go back in a heartbeat!

[Hugh R]

Life is too short. Go back if that has better opportunities, but give two weeks notice. Do Not burn bridges, you never know when that old company will be in a position to eff you/want to hire you when you come groveling back, etc.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Hugh, I had the same thought. My only concern is that they'll tell me to GTFO considering that I've not even been there two months. Though I suppose it's always better to take the high road.

[LWJ]

Take the high road for sure! Go talk to the folks where you used to work and have a heart to heart. Tell them that you want it. Also, tell them that you are going to work your rear off for them and be a much more valuable asset to the company.

The whole time, keep this in mind: by far and away the best time to negotiate your pay raise is BEFORE YOU ACCEPT the job.

When you sit down with them, let your enthusiasm fly. Let them know how you have always had management aspirations.

When they get it. And they will. Tell them that your one reservation is that you know that person X, who did this job prior to you was making significantly more and you don't want this to eat away at you. Here is the key - find a win-win on the income. Perhaps something like if you perform X within Y, you get an income bump to Z.

This allows them to quantify your income bump. It is politically easier than just saying I need 120K, or whatever your number is.

Also, remember that you are a known quantity with this company. Remind them that their recruiting cost for you is near zero as opposed to someone who needs to be trained on the culture, etc. Most new hires cost around 35K just to hire!

Good luck. Have fun. Don't be greedy. Don't sell yourself short. A guy I knew took a job with a 5K salary bump. If he thought about it, he would have realized that he would have gotten more money at his old employer given the pace of increases he had gotten vs many new hires don't get salary reviews for a while.

Got it? It is a game. The game of your income.

Good luck.
Larry

[lowyder993s]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Hugh, I had the same thought. My only concern is that they'll tell me to GTFO considering that I've not even been there two months. Though I suppose it's always better to take the high road.

If you were w/ me 2 mos. and went back to your prev employer...I'd tell you to GTFO too. I've done it a couple times already.
Now...maybe you and your previous employer have both realized you 2 are a good match. You may need to suck it up a bit while they feel you out to see if you're really mgmt material. Time to get serious and prove what you're worth...Best of luck.

[A930Rocket]

I'm sure you'll be escorted out the door right after you give them two weeks.

As far as the last guy making more money than you, he was there 20 years. I can see a bump, but not getting what a guy who was there 20 years.

[oldE]

"I switched jobs, primary motivation was the lack of pay and promotion"

Matt,

Larry has a lot of good points. I think you already have in mind your old employer didn't begin to value you until you left. They were paying you what they could get away with, pretty sure they had you.

Then you made your statement by moving and now they have a vacancy, they know you are tempted by their offer. Like others here, I feel you should have a candid talk with your 'old firm' and let them know up front you are worth more than what they are offering. If you are getting that for "a mundane desk job driving metrics and updating databases", then a position with real responsibility should be worth more.

Also, with your current employer, if you do make the switch back, let them know the position wasn't what you thought you were getting in to. They're not going to like it, but it is far better to be doing something you like.

All the best.
Les

[widgeon13]

Question: Why didn't your old company come up with this proposal when you announced that you were leaving. I would be concerned that they want you back for their short term benefit and could screw you over in the long run.

There is no way you can leave your new position w/o burning the bridge in my opinion but you can always say the old employer offered you an opportunity you can't resist. If you do go back, give the employer two weeks notice and if they don't want to work with that, at least you have been professional about it.

Tough situation. You have to do what is best for No. 1. That's you and your family. If it's a large corp, they will understand but not necessarily like your decision.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by widgeon13

Question: Why didn't your old company come up with this proposal when you announced that you were leaving. I would be concerned that they want you back for their short term benefit and could screw you over in the long run.

There is no way you can leave your new position w/o burning the bridge in my opinion but you can always say the old employer offered you an opportunity you can't resist. If you do go back, give the employer two weeks notice and if they don't want to work with that, at least you have been professional about it.

Tough situation. You have to do what is best for No. 1. That's you and your family. If it's a large corp, they will understand but not necessarily like your decision.

I quit within one week of an announced layoff, so they weren't able to make me a counter-offer for political reasons. By my leaving they were able to lay off one less person.

[Gretch]

Dicker with the old company a bit.......... play hard to get........ flirt with them all the while but let them know they "are gonna need a bigger boat"......

You best understand the job security thing too.......... jobs ain't growing on trees, this season.......

[Porsche-O-Phile]

God put your eyes on the front of your head for a reason. Look forward, never back.

You had the time to make your decision and you made it. Stick to it. You're in a position that several million others would kill for - having multiple employers vying for you. Count your blessings, do the best you can at the new place, find an aspect that interests you and emphasize that. Re-evaluate in a few years.

Good luck.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Also, your old company had their chance to keep you and they didn't. Now they want you back? Think they'll actually set you up to succeed knowing you're willing to jump ship on them?

Ahh, no.

[Rot 911]

Matt, how long had the other person been in that position? Was their higher salary a result of time in grade?

[mikester]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

So about one month ago I switched jobs, primary motivation was the lack of pay and promotion because I genuinely enjoyed the job. The new job wasn't as interesting, but there was a slight raise and the company is more secure. Quite frankly I hate my new job, it's a mundane desk job driving metrics and updating databases, not at all what I expected. Basically the most boring parts of program management, with no real visibility or authority. Also no real technical content, which I miss (I'm an engineer with management aspirations). The upside is that it's a true 9-5 type job with little stress, which bores me but my family enjoys.

In the meantime, my old company has now offered me a position with essentially the same pay as the new job but substantially more authority. I would be the test operations manager on my old team, managing three test aircraft with three direct reports. This would be my first official management position, doing dynamic work that I enjoy and already know well. My biggest hangup is the fact that I know the job is worth far more, and the previous person was making much more money. I would also be working a lot more hours as well as traveling more. On the upside it would be a big step up in the company so I would have lots of leverage to angle for a promotion, as well as look good on a resume. For a bit of perspective, the previous person doing this job had 20 years of experience in the industry, I have 4.

So I'm stuck in a tough spot. I can take the job with my old company which I know I'll enjoy, but I'm getting screwed on pay. I also know that leaving my current company after 6 weeks will burn some bridges. On the other hand, I can keep my current job which I hate and hope that it either gets better or that I can get re-assigned to a different role. I'm fairly new to this industry so I hate to burn bridges, but I also feel that I need to take any opportunity to advance and grow. Thoughts?

What were the problems that lead to your departure and do they still exist.

If they do - I would not go back. If they do not - then I would consider it.

You might want to have a heart to heart with your new employer regarding the situation - tell them that the job is simply not shaping up to be what they told you it would be.

I have known plenty of people to leave a company and then come back so I have no problem with doing that - I've almost done it myself. But the same problems existed in the salary and what not negotiations so I politely stated just that and declined the offer.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

In the meantime, my old company has now offered me a position with essentially the same pay as the new job but substantially more authority. I would be the test operations manager on my old team, managing three test aircraft with three direct reports. This would be my first official management position, doing dynamic work that I enjoy and already know well.

A few things. One, I have met Matt and tried to hire him when I started on a UAS project I thought he would be perfect for. So my opinion is biased. This is a good, solid young man, ADD in all the right places.

My wife is still jamming around in the 4Runner we bought from Matt.

So, some advice:

A test job is the absolute best job in the world. While the co-owner of the company designing and building the Wingman UAS, my title is Test Director. I like to be on the floor, be on the ramp, working with test folks, working with engineers solving problems. On that alone, without salary concerns, etc., take the job.

You get one six weeks and bolt on your resume. Don't do it again.

You live in a small town...bridges aren't burned, they are immolated. You have effectively eliminated a safety net at the company that is employing you now.

Once you get into management the options expand.

Lastly, get a plan, figure out where it is you really want to be in 5/10 years...think job after next. Do not put your current job woes in a vacuum, always, even with the test job, plan ahead.

[ghost1001]

Here is another way to look at it….what job gets you to where you want to be 5, 10, 20 years from now?

Now, assuming you want to move up in your field and make more money, in this day that means moving between companies (usually).

So what looks better to your next employer, or is there more possibility for upward movement in your current position. What will look better on the resume for the next job? Promotion at the 1st company or your new position at the current one?

Maybe that helps you make a decision:

Fact, you were compelled to leave the 1st company

Fact, 1st company was having layoffs; current company was hiring and paying more

Fact, you have better quality of life with current company

I would say that if the old company wants you for a position held by one person for 20 years, they may expect you to do the same…..and they sound cheap….or worse…..broke.

I personally do not see a reason to go back.

I have has good jobs, bad jobs, fun jobs, many, many jobs and titles in varied companies, big, small…..etc, etc.

Work is work, a means to an end. I have always focused less on the work and more on “positioning” myself for opportunity….it has worked out quite well.

Kevin

[onewhippedpuppy]

Paul, as always, well said. I am accepting the offer from my former company, and Paul expressed it far better than I ever could. It is the job I want to be doing today, and it best positions me for the job I want to be doing tomorrow.

As always, thanks to everyone for your input. I respect the opinions and experience of everyone on this BBS (well mostly ), I'm never disappointed when I ask for advice.

Quote de onewhippedpuppy

In the meantime, my old company has now offered me a position with essentially the same pay as the new job but substantially more authority. I would be the test operations manager on my old team, managing three test aircraft with three direct reports. This would be my first official management position, doing dynamic work that I enjoy and already know well.

A few things. One, I have met Matt and tried to hire him when I started on a UAS project I thought he would be perfect for. So my opinion is biased. This is a good, solid young man, ADD in all the right places.



My wife is still jamming around in the 4Runner we bought from Matt.



So, some advice:



A test job is the absolute best job in the world. While the co-owner of the company designing and building the Wingman UAS, my title is Test Director. I like to be on the floor, be on the ramp, working with test folks, working with engineers solving problems. On that alone, without salary concerns, etc., take the job.



You get one six weeks and bolt on your resume. Don't do it again.



You live in a small town...bridges aren't burned, they are immolated. You have effectively eliminated a safety net at the company that is employing you now.



Once you get into management the options expand.



Lastly, get a plan, figure out where it is you really want to be in 5/10 years...think job after next. Do not put your current job woes in a vacuum, always, even with the test job, plan ahead.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

I would go back but ask if the salary is negotiable, if not when you start can you agree (in writing) a schedule for annual increases as you're experience grows.

If you look from your old companies perspective, they know you, they know you will fit in, they are also pretty sure you can do the job. You have a huge head start on getting the job compared to any unknown applicants so if they have any sense I'm sure they will find a little extra to reach a mutually acceptable salary.

As for security, the best job security you can have (other than a long term contract) is knowing you have the right skills other companies are looking for.

As mentioned before you spend most of your life working so if given the chance you should choose which one you will enjoy the most.