Is the US exceptional?

[wdfifteen]

I keep hearing about American "exceptionalism" so I looked it up. I thought it was something some radio talking head dreamed up., but the concept goes clear back to Alex de Tocqueville. I think it's dangerous to believe the US has been anointed by God to be a special nation. Maybe this idea is why our education achievement levels have dropped so far below that of other countries. Why work to be exceptional if it's been handed to you by God?

[tabs]

-de Toke wrote about the USA back in the 1820's when the USA was still on the come. We did become #1 after he wrote his stuff. So there is a big difference between what is classically known as American exceptional ism and the malaise that has been manifesting itself over the last 40 years The malaise that we suffer from now is the "WE HAVE IT MADE IN THE SHADE" syndrome, which means we don't have to try anymore. The GREATEST proponent of that syndrome is none other than Barrack Obama when he so boldly said, "It is a shame that a RICH NATION like American has 45 M people without HC." In other words he said, "Why we can afford it all without consequence." Well one guesses that he is finding out differently.

[azasadny]

I think "exceptionalism" can deteriorate into "fascism" if we're not careful...

[ZOO]

Originally Posted by tabs

, "It is a shame that a RICH NATION like American has 45 M people without HC." In other words he said, "Why we can afford it all without consequence." Well one guesses that he is finding out differently.

I'd only buy this argument had Obama been the one in power for the last years you identify as the "malaise" era.

Is America still great? Millions of immigrants (legal and otherwise) seem to think so. But empires rise and fall based on the individual and collective actions of those with power, regardless of political leaning.

[cbush]

Not sure how this relates to how exceptionalism is used now, but I have been thinking about the United States as exceptional in the context of the book "The Great Frontier" by Walter Prescott Webb. First published in 1951, it predicts some of the challenges the US will face as the "Great Frontier" closes, and the vast wealth of the US starts to constrict. It really helps put some of the challenges we face into a historical context.

America is a special nation- the most remarkable thing to happen to human civilization in recorded history. Our wealth and spirit have re-energized almost every civilization on the planet. But the factors that drove that are changing, so the future is unclear.

Synopsis of the "The Great Frontier"--

First published in 1951, "The Great Frontier" has become one of the undisputed classics of Western history, its conclusions still hotly debated by scholars but nonetheless essential and engrossing reading for anyone who wishes to understand the history and significance of this vast and often puzzling region.
The final work of pioneer Western historian Walter Prescott Webb, "The Great Frontier" represents a daring attempt to interpret the settlement of the American West in the global context of the expansion of European civilization between the fifteenth and twentieth centuries. According to Webb's "boom hypothesis," the expansion of Europe's "Great Frontier" into the Western Hemisphere energized a static society and made possible the development of such fundamental institutions of the modern era as individualism, capitalism, and political democracy. Webb contends that the closing of the global frontier at the end of the nineteenth century, with the end of easily available empty land and readily exploited natural resources, was responsible for the crises and violence of the twentieth century and boded ill for the future of the United States's treasured democracy.

[imcarthur]

"The essence of its failure was that it could not sustain unity. In its early stages its citizens, both patrician and plebeian, had a certain tradition of justice and good faith, and of the loyalty of all citizens to the law, and of the goodness of the law for all citizens; it clung to this idea of the importance of the law and of law-abidingness nearly into the first century B. C. But the unforeseen invention and development of money, the temptations and disruptions of imperial expansion, the entanglement of electoral methods, weakened and swamped this tradition by presenting old issues in new disguises under which the judgment did not recognize them, and by enabling men to be loyal to the professions of citizenship and disloyal to its spirit. The bond of the Roman people had always been a moral rather than a religious bond; their religion was sacrificial and superstitious; it embodied no such great ideas of a divine leader and of a sacred mission as Judaism was developing. As the idea of citizenship failed and faded before the new occasions, there remained no inner, that is to say no real, unity in the system at all. Every man tended more and more to do what was right in his own eyes."

From: Why The Roman Republic Failed - Outline of History - H.G. Wells (1919)

Ian

[jyl]

"America is a special nation- the most remarkable thing to happen to human civilization in recorded history"

This sounds like hyperbolic schoolboy talk.

[cbush]

[QUOTE=jyl;5730951
This sounds like hyperbolic schoolboy talk.[/QUOTE]

Call it what you will. I didn't say that Americans were special (we are), but that the discovery and settling of America (not the United States) was. Short of the Roman conquest of the known world do you know of anything in human history as exceptional?

I assume you have read the book?

[cashflyer]

+1, what Tabs said about mayonnaise.

[ZOO]

There are many nations that would fit the description of exceptionalism, in my view. Some countries through social ideas, others through individual liberty. Maybe at one point we can put it all together and become "exceptional" as a planet.

[cbush]

Does not exceptionalism come through opportunity? Mayonnaise just sets in when the opportunities dry up

[cashflyer]

Exceptionalism is like a sandwich.
The restaurant has everything necessary to build a sandwich (opportunity), however you must have staff to build it (realization). If everyone sits at the counter and waits on the sandwich to be brought to them, but there is nobody making the sandwich, then they will all go hungry (missed opportunity due to excess mayonnaise).

America was, and still is, the land of opportunity.
People need to take advantage of the opportunities, and stop taking advantage of each other.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by tabs

-de Toke wrote about the USA back in the 1820's when the USA was still on the come. We did become #1 after he wrote his stuff. So there is a big difference between what is classically known as American exceptional ism and the malaise that has been manifesting itself over the last 40 years The malaise that we suffer from now is the "WE HAVE IT MADE IN THE SHADE" syndrome, which means we don't have to try anymore.

I agree. I think any exceptionalism we enjoy is earned every day.

Originally Posted by tabs

The GREATEST proponent of that syndrome is none other than Barrack Obama when he so boldly said, "It is a shame that a RICH NATION like American has 45 M people without HC." In other words he said, "Why we can afford it all without consequence." Well one guesses that he is finding out differently.

The notion of American exceptionalism being bestowed on us is being pushed by Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck.
What BO said was, "I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism.” Hannity ripped him a new one for saying that.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by cbush

Webb contends that the closing of the global frontier at the end of the nineteenth century, with the end of easily available empty land and readily exploited natural resources, was responsible for the crises and violence of the twentieth century and boded ill for the future of the United States's treasured democracy.

I think he's right. I gotta read this book.

[jyl]

I think the US is and has been an extremely powerful and influential nation with certain political, economic, and cultural ideals that are inspiring to much of the world.

We did not invent democracy and liberty (Greeks), world superpower (Roman Empire), global trading (British Empire, lots of others), the rule of law (British and others), or many other things besides.

In general, I think self-congratulation or self-doubt about whether the US is "exceptional" is rather purposeless from a practical standpoint. It tends to embroil the mind in ideological argument, semantic debate, and backwards-looking nostalgia. Let the historians worry about that.

We should be looking forward, focused on pragmatic things. There are certain major things the US needs to do. Wringing our hands about whether we were, are, or will be "exceptional" is pointless.

[Lothar]

AdT also said that the American form of government will prosper until the day that politicians realize that they can bribe the people with their own money. We have long since past that point and every day since, this country has become a little less special.

Generations are being taught that government can solve society's ills, when in fact, government is the root of many of those ills. Independence is being replaced with dependence. We are losing the edge that we once held in education, we are no longer the most productive nation in the world and we consume at excessive and unsustainable rates. Why? Because we are programmed to.

We are periodically fed a crisis scenario for which all of the proposed answers cost us our freedom and cripple the individual. We are watching the devolution of the great experiment that is happening because of a systematic effort to drive out the fundamental principles that made this nation exceptional.

jyl is correct. There is little value in self-congratulation or debate over whether we are, or are not, exceptional as a nation. Self analysis is pop-culture crap. We must "be" exceptional each day in our words and deeds, because each day is an opportunity to become unexceptional.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

+1, what Tabs said about mayonnaise.

the US is often castigated for its mayonnaise, but in fact ours is just as good as the French mayonnaise in some local areas

you just need to look for the local, artisan, hand-brewed mayonnaise and yer set

so there!

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by jyl

...

We did not invent democracy and liberty (Greeks), world superpower (Roman Empire), ...

some argue that the status of the US vis-a-vis the rest of the world is better compared to that of the Athenians (hegemon; leader of others) than to a classical empire, like the Romans

[imcarthur]

I disagree. Their are just too many parallels with the Roman Republic's late years to be dismissed. So if history truly does repeat itself, civil strife, external strife, internal partisan warring & an eventual savior (i.e. a dictator) will emerge.

There has not been any civilization - ever - in the history of civilizations - that did not think that they were exceptional . . . and invincible.

Ian

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Maybe this idea is why our education achievement levels have dropped so far below that of other countries.

Which countries are above us in education achievement levels?

For those countries - do our best and brightest students go to those countries to go to college?

Why do so many of the best and brightest from other countries come to our country to get educated.

Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, Chicago, Brown, MIT, Cal Tech, Penn, Dartmouth, Duke, Berkeley, Cornell, Rice, Vanderbilt, etc. etc. etc.

Have you seen the educational (and other) accomplishments of the thousands and thousands of students who go to our top tier colleges?

What countries are we behind in that regard?