Didn't hear anything about this shooting until today

[island911]

I wonder where the stray bullet went. (4 of 5 shots hit the wood carver)



...read, 'public safety' not the cop's top concern.

[kimlangley7]

looks to me a cop on a power trip...

so if you are on your front porch carving.. cop got the right to gun you down??

cops these days are out of control... they shoot first.. and don't suffer any recurcussions when they "make a mistake"...

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by kimlangley7

cops these days are out of control... they shoot first...

Well, this one sure did, but I'm not going to pass judgement on cops in general because of the inexcusable actions of one.

The vast majority of cops are the good guys. But, as in any sizable group, a few get in that clearly do not belong.

[Joe Bob]

Different shooting, but the hand bag is on eBay. $$ going to the Recycled Santa project.....of course eBay has pulled the auction twice for rule violations.

School Board Shooting PURSE Bay County, Florida - eBay (item 250745119225 end time Dec-22-10 17:54:06 PST)

[Brando]

Obligatory...

[9dreizig]

Where's the usual defenders of our boys in blue here ? (silverwhaletail for one)

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by 9dreizig

Where's the usual defenders of our boys in blue here ? (silverwhaletail for one)

It is pretty clear that this action is indefensible, so unlike many liberals who post here, we don't blindly defend something so wrong.. Hell, this clown whould have shot both Jed Clampett meets Andy Taylor....

[nostatic]

"he kinda turned towards me..."

Hmm, that is the criteria for a deadly threat?

I normally give LEO the benefit of the doubt. There doesn't seem to be much doubt on this one - hard to imagine how this is a good shoot.

[9dreizig]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

It is pretty clear that this action is indefensible, so unlike many liberals who post here, we don't blindly defend something so wrong.. Hell, this clown whould have shot both Jed Clampett meets Andy Taylor....

Has nothing to do with conservative vs liberal Byron, I"m pretty conservative I worry more about the liberals in this country letting the cops run wild (think armed tax collectors)

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by 9dreizig

Has nothing to do with conservative vs liberal Byron, I"m pretty conservative I worry more about the liberals in this country letting the cops run wild (think armed tax collectors)

The comment wasn't aimed at you, but there are some here, nn the left side of the fence, who defend the blatantly wrong, even when others of the same leaning don't defend it. We all know who they are..

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by Danimal16

Nope, that is what a tazer is for.

So are we to assume he didn't have a taser?

Or is it not proper to use it if the perp is holding a knife?

(I realize it has been said the knife was found in a closed position, but that may not have been verified.)

[silverwhaletail]

Originally Posted by KC911

.I can virtually guarantee this wasn't the first time that LEO exhibited "I throw gas on a fire" tendencies. Serious question to you that proudly (and rightfully so I might add) serve...how does this get fixed?

Raise Standards in Hiring. Demand excellence in applicants in all phases of application process. Excellence in intelligence. Excellence in physical ability. Excellence in mental fitness. Excellence in prior work history. Excellence in responsible financial history. Excellence in character, steadfastness, loyalty and stick-to-it-iveness.

Require ongoing psychological/physical/academic testing and training.

Commit to standardized ongoing training. (and the high costs involved)

And be prepared to pay for it, both in upfront costs (high salaries) and ongoing costs (training, training, training) .

[silverwhaletail]

Originally Posted by Brando

You're thinking of the "Use of Force" continuum.

1. Physical Presence
2. Soft Hands
3. Mace or Pepper Spray
(A K-9 unit would fall here)
4. Hard Hands
5. Police Baton, etc.
6. Threat of Deadly Force
7. Deadly Force

This LEO skipped 2-6 and just opened fire in a matter of seconds.

The use of force continuum is not like an escalator. Its like an elevator.

You can go from level 1 straight to level 7. And nine times out of ten, in the case of an officer involved shooting, that is the way that it happens.

[silverwhaletail]

Originally Posted by 9dreizig

Where's the usual defenders of our boys in blue here ? (silverwhaletail for one)

It was the city manager's fault.

The city manager told the police chief that costs for garbage collection are up and tax revenues are down. city manager shouts "we need mo money!"

police chief takes 10 officers from patrol and makes them motor officers so that they can write more tickets and increase revenue for the city. patrol is now 10 officers short.

police officer is pissed off because now he only has time for 10 Starbucks breaks per day instead of the usual 11, due to the added workload. (police officer is working on hot 19 year old Starbucks Girl with big tits and has almost closed the deal)

police officer sees ""Joe the Schitman" (homeless "wood carver") in the business district yet again, walking straight toward the business that is owned by an "Activist" who has called the mayor's office 177 times during the last year complaining about "Joe the Schitman" panhandling in front of his business and scaring off his customers. (by the way, the Activist's business is barely able to make ends meet and contributes nothing to the tax base. Therefore, the Activist's business gets 100x more police attention than any other of the reputable, established, highly profitable businesses that surround the Activist's business) The Activist's business is right next door to the Starbucks, incidentally..

Police Officer has had it with these transients and all of the calls for service that originate because of them. Police Officer gets out of car with a short fuse.

Police Officer provokes response from Joe the Schitman.

Police Officer makes a mistake.

Police Officer goes to Prison.


Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, the city manager did it. I rest my case.

[turbo6bar]

Originally Posted by silverwhaletail

It was the city manager's fault.

Yep, fault never lies on the officer's shoulder.

I hope the sarcasm masks your true feelings.

[island911]

So, just how good does one have to be, with a knife, to have any snowball's chance in hell to injure, even scratch, a" trained professional" closing in and wielding a semiautomatic?

I mean, I get* the training argument -kind of. But it seems that anyone who is that good with a knife could just as easily be deadly (or cause injury) with their bare hands.

Ergo, expect the Seattle police to start dropping anyone who doesn't immediately comply -they certainly have been dropping a lot of people with knives, around here.

[stomachmonkey]

You guys notice this, 1:04.

He exits the car with his weapon already drawn.

Is that SOP?

[Porsche-poor]

Yes I know its Fox news but I have seen it in other places and no I to think the cop was in the wrong but the guy he shot was not so innocent either......

Seattle Woodcarver: New dash cam video on prior encounters with police shows an angry and threatening John T. Williams. - KCPQ


"According to Seattle Police, officers had encounters with Williams seven times in the month of August alone before he was shot.

The first was August 3rd for public intoxication, followed by a similar car on August 8th. Williams was cited for having an open container and let go. At the time, you can see him holding a board he says he was carving. He also had a can of beer, but told officers earlier in the week he was drinking mouthwash and rubbing alcohol.

In a previous incident, dash cam audio makes it clear that one of the officers was very familiar with the wood carver.

"I write him a ticket every time I can. I stop giving warnings to all of our chronic inebriates. They have housing that we pay for with our tax money and they can drink there and they choose to drink out on the street so I write them a ticket every time,” says the officer.

Four days later there was another encounter with police, when a business called complaining Williams was yelling and swearing at his customers. On August 25th, an angry Williams was stopped for jaywalking. The officers let him off with a warning. Here he had another of his wood carvings with him.

At 7:30 PM the next evening, police got a call claiming Williams was yelling at customers outside the Dick's drive-in on Capitol Hill. The following exchange between a female officer and Williams shows a side of the woodcarver we haven't heard before.

“They don't want you here, you're bothering people,” says the officer.

“F***k you b**ch. I’ll f***ing kill you, all you police force,” shouts Williams.

Once again, they let Williams go, and the officers discussed his unusual behavior in the car.

“Mike stopped him yesterday for walking in traffic and he was acting the same way. He was clenching his fists and they thought he was going to fight."

Williams eighth and final run in with the law last August would take place four days later, when officer Ian Birk pulled over because he says he saw Williams stabbing a knife into piece of wood. "

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Porsche-poor

Yes I know its Fox news but I have seen it in other places and no I to think the cop was in the wrong but the guy he shot was not so innocent either......

Seattle Woodcarver: New dash cam video on prior encounters with police shows an angry and threatening John T. Williams. - KCPQ


"According to Seattle Police, officers had encounters with Williams seven times in the month of August alone before he was shot.

The first was August 3rd for public intoxication, followed by a similar car on August 8th. Williams was cited for having an open container and let go. At the time, you can see him holding a board he says he was carving. He also had a can of beer, but told officers earlier in the week he was drinking mouthwash and rubbing alcohol.

In a previous incident, dash cam audio makes it clear that one of the officers was very familiar with the wood carver.

"I write him a ticket every time I can. I stop giving warnings to all of our chronic inebriates. They have housing that we pay for with our tax money and they can drink there and they choose to drink out on the street so I write them a ticket every time,” says the officer.

Four days later there was another encounter with police, when a business called complaining Williams was yelling and swearing at his customers. On August 25th, an angry Williams was stopped for jaywalking. The officers let him off with a warning. Here he had another of his wood carvings with him.

At 7:30 PM the next evening, police got a call claiming Williams was yelling at customers outside the Dick's drive-in on Capitol Hill. The following exchange between a female officer and Williams shows a side of the woodcarver we haven't heard before.

“They don't want you here, you're bothering people,” says the officer.

“F***k you b**ch. I’ll f***ing kill you, all you police force,” shouts Williams.

Once again, they let Williams go, and the officers discussed his unusual behavior in the car.

“Mike stopped him yesterday for walking in traffic and he was acting the same way. He was clenching his fists and they thought he was going to fight."

Williams eighth and final run in with the law last August would take place four days later, when officer Ian Birk pulled over because he says he saw Williams stabbing a knife into piece of wood. "

Honestly that makes it worse.

If this officer had knowledge of the prior encounters then why did he simply not follow and observe the victim while requesting back up?

Why not turn the corner and stop the cruiser in front of the victim so he can confront him with the cruiser between them?

If he had prior knowledge of this specific individuals prior aggressive posture to police then why on earth would he put himself in a compromised situation when he had alternatives.

The victim was walking down the street. He was not engaged in any aggressive or confrontational action with anybody.

There was no immediate perceivable threat to the public.

[island911]

ah! I see now... the belligerent drunk Indian was actually working on his master plan to kill all of the cops. clearly, that changes everything.

edit: spot-on Monk-man.