Gun cap - ##+1, do you FULLY load your weapon
 

Semi-auto guns are pretty much always marketed as ##+1 for the ability to put one in the chamber, and then insert a full mag. With a 1911, I can see doing that, but with some of the modern high-cap guns, do we really need/want to?

Most 1911s are 7 or 8+1, I think, right? So with a 1911 and 2 extra mags, you'll have 22 rounds. My only gun right now is a 9mm XDM, the mag holds 19 rounds. If I carried 19+1 plus 2 more mags, I'd be carrying more than your average box of ammo, 58 rounds. So, for you folks that carry something that holds 13 or more rounds in the mag, do you carry 13+1? Also, do you carry 2 extra mags?

Just curious what some of your thoughts are.

I also posted this on a site that is specifically for Texas CCW talk to see what their thoughts were, the link is below in case anyone is curious.
TexasCHLforum.com • View topic - Gun cap - ##+1, do you FULLY load your weapon

So, 2 questions

1 Do you carry ##+1

2 If your gun is high cap, do you carry 3 mags (that could mean 40-60 rounds or more of ammo)

I have never heard anyone say "damn I have too much ammo." Carry what you feel comfortable with. Weight definitely becomes a deciding factor when carrying on a daily basis.

Nope. With the G17, I have 17 in the mag. With the G26, I have 12 in the mag.

Interesting reading there...thanks.

Wow, do you really expect to get into a long gun battle? Unless you are a cop or stationed in Iraq or Afghanistan what possible reason can you think of that you might need or want 58 rounds?

I am just wondering.

I can't carry in my home state, but you have to ask yourself...if you are carrying, why wouldn't you want one in the chamber and a full mag?

Extra mags while carrying...personal preference. A CZ-75 SP-01 Phantom has 18 or 19 cap mags (varies from mag to mag) plus one in the chamber....20 rds is a lot!

Actually, that's my point. I don't expect to ever need that many rounds. Carrying 58 rounds sounds like it could be a pain. The biggest issue that I can see is needing at least 1 extra mag just in case the mag in the gun has some sort of issue. I can't imagine needing that many bullets, but I can see a point to having at least 2 mags total. There are no mags for my gun that hold fewer than 19 rounds unless I just don't load them fully. Of course, it seems silly to have them half loaded too.

I've seen that movie gun battle where one guy has the other guy in a corner and his gun goes "click." I don't want to be that guy. So, +1.

Is that one of the movies were the good guy can out run the spray of bullets from a machine gun and the door on his car is bulletproof?

I hate to break it to ya, but that is not real or even realistic.

Lol...

Was watching the B movie "The Butcher" recently with Eric Robert's "The Butcher" carrying a couple of gold plated 1911's. He must have fired 20 rounds from each spoon before reloading. I guess the lession is, never stop to reload during a fight...just keep shooting even if you only have 8 in each.

THANKS, EINSTEIN.

j/k SmileWavy

I carry a G27 off duty and NEVER carry with a round in the chamber. I only carry the gun with the mag that is in the gun, on my person. I keep one extra mag (extended cap) in each of my vehicles.

I prefer the built in safety factor of knowing that there is never a round in the chamber. (however, EVERY GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED/SAFE MUZZLE DIRECTION AT ALL TIMES/FINGER OFF OF THE TRIGGER UNLESS TARGET IS TO BE DESTROYED)

If the gun is ever used in anger it will be as a means to escape, not to engage and prevail.

Huh, that's surprising. You're in the minority.

If sniper were here, he'd say you were afraid of Glock-leg. ;)

Why even carry then? If you have time to chamber a round, you probably aren't in need of shooting and if you are in need of shooting you won't have the time to chamber.

Now if I carry with one in the chamber, how am I supposed to make that cool racking the gun sound that scares all the bad guys??? ;)

I strongly agree with this. I see no reason to take any risk of accidental discharge. There's no reason to rely on the safety device built into the gun if you don't have to. The downside to having an empty chamber is a fraction of a second to work the slide. The risk of having an accidental discharge is much greater than the chances you'll need to fire your gun in anger and the downside of an accidental discharge is horrifying.

I am also a strong believer in carrying limited ammo. If you don't have the option of sraying your fire around, you'll be more careful with your shots. There were a lot fewer shootings in the old days when cops carried 6 shot revolvers. I understand the reasons why they now have high capacity 9 and 10 mm handguns, but the public was much safer when cops only had six shots. In my considered opinion, if you go through six shots and you still need more, you were tangling with something too big for you anyway.

Studies show that almost all handgun encounters happen at about 12 feet or less, and often within arms reach of the intended target. Even then, only a tiny percentage of shots actually hit the intended target. More is not better.

Still have time to rack the slide?

And what of the revolvers? Empty wheel, just like an empty chamber?

If I carried a Glock, I'd seriously consider doing it this way. I'm assuming you have some kind of active retention holster for duty open carry and not so active retention for CCW.

But most of my carry guns are SIG's, where the first shot is always DA, so much less chance of anything catching that trigger and pulling hard enough to make it go bang. Glocks are different and I don't train with them anyway.

My SIG P226 has the SCT grips and mags that hold 15 or so rounds of .357SIG or .40. It gets heavy that way, but I'm with Kurt on this one. No one has ever had a problem with having too much ammo.

And besides, plenty of people have not been able to rack the slide back when they really needed a gun. I want the fewest possible steps between needing it and having it. Remember, ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.

I have been told there are only two occasions that you would wish that you had less ammo:

1. You are swimming

2. You are on fire.

Carry on~


:) :)

well if yer a LEO then i fer sure would ALWAYS carry (1) in the pipe.



since i am NOT a LEO , i do not carry (1) in the pipe. i dont want to be a cop, and i dont want anything to do with being a cop. i am always aware of my surroundings day or night anywhere i go, and i feel it is much safer.


plus the fact i have played with various spoons all my life of various models and sizes that any and all of them i can put into battery quicker than most can spit.



now.....................on the other side of the coin if i have to go to a bad section of town, yes then i will carry (1) in the pipe.



cops are OFFENSIVE!




WE ARE DEFENSIVE!



just this early am since it is snowy rainey out here, i took apart my carry walther ppk/s and tore it apart and cleaned all the lint off, tore slide off,tore spring off, tore grips off and gave it a rub down, lubed, emptied mag, refilled mag, put back together.

i usually do this about every 2 weeks for a carry weapon, no matter it being a revolver or semi.


i carry (1) extra mag or speedloader.



werks fer me.



another point to be made here. if yer gonna carry, you damn well better be practicing yer RACK/DRAW in front of a mirror(UNLOADED) to the point that it is 2nd nature come rain snow sleet or shine no matter if you are sitting in a car/truck/walking/sitting/ taking a crap.



i mean it seriously. you have to dress accordingly. these dumbazz in the shirt holsters, and in yer pants pocket aint gonna get it when needed. my walther and others (all) are in BIANCHI ACCUMOLD NYLON holsters. some with the forward leaning FBI cant. i hate leather due to heat here and when wet they stretch and then they are junk.


example: xmas shopping in a local mall, took smith j-frame .357 5 shot. took extra speedloader. nobody on the planet knew except lil ol me. if the POO went down inside or out in parking lot, 10 rds of .357 will deter just about everyone on the planet aside from kamikazes with IED's strapped to their chest which is preeety damn unlikely.



now if i had my pissant .380................could YOU tell it was a .380 or a .38 or a 9mm from the decibels going off (8) times and then a reload? would you STILL PRESS THE ATTACK???????

I carry my 1911 with one in the pipe and uncocked, a full magazine. My 1908 and 1903 Colts I carry with an empty camber as they are hammerless. If it is loaded, it is ready to fire. Although it has 3 safeties I have had an accidental discharge when the gun was dropped. My blood still runs cold when I think of that day. It could have been a very bad situation. I wear a shoulder holster always. Can't get to a belt holster in the car. Plus my arms are long so I have to lift up high to get to a weapon at my waist, a shoulder holster for me is a simple cross draw. If I stand with my arms folded I can hold the pistol easily.

and that "kiddies" is WHY ya dont carry one in the pipe! cuz 99.99999999 of us aint cops and AD's really really REALLY SUCK !


and until us mere mortal humans grow octopuss suckers on our hands and can grasp objects(spoons) each and every time without dropping them, there will continue to be accidental discharges that could quite possibly KILL YOU or someone ELSE, when you are hell bent on carrying one in the pipe all the time.


cheese and rice 99.999999999999999999999999999999% of the time its going to be a situation YOU SEE HAPPENING not directed at yerself, and you have time to:


1) SEEK COVER-DUH!

2) pull spoon from concealed/rack round...................and then place in condition RED and AIM! which of course you have practiced over and over and over and over and OVER ,like myself and yer QUICKER THAN SNOT!


aka..................kweeks draw mcgraw!



because if you dont seek cover, bad guys are gonna take YOU the threat out first!


so thats why i dont carry a round in the pipe unless alone hunting by myself, or if i know i am going to a "bad" side of town.


i aint a cop. dont wanna be a cop. dont wanna play cop. because they have a really really suck azz job that they are not paid enough to do. and there are a lot of bad guys.




what you have to do is practice practice practice your INSTINCTIVE crouch, your INSTINCTICE draw from concealed, your INSTINCTIVE rack(the slide if its an auto), and INSTINCTIVE remove from safety(if so equipped) and INSTINCTIVE AIM, and INSTINCTIVE squeeze(not pull) the trigger.



obviously with a 5-6 shooter revolver you can delete the slide and safety part.



AND EVEN THEN I CARRY A REVOLVER on an EMPTY CHAMBER with a $100 dolla bill in there fer burying money if I GIT DRY-GULCHED!

I'm not worried at all about an AD when dropping a chambered gun. In the very unlikely event it lands on the hammer, most modern handguns have a firing pin block that only releases when the trigger is pulled and no other way. I think Series 80 1911's were the first generation with something like this. But AFAIK, all SIG's and Glocks have them. I've detail stripped my SIG's and 1911's before and have seen up close how these work, so I feel good about them.

BTW, there was an AD that hit someone at Shooter's World in Phoenix a little over a year ago. An instructor was drawing (Glock) and his front sight got caught on his shirt when reholstering, which he didn't notice. When he drew again, the hung up shirt yanked the gun loose and he dropped it. But it only discharged because he foolishly tried to catch it and hit the trigger in doing so. He'd have been far better off letting it hit the floor.

i dont store one in the tube. neither my Sig, and especially not my Glock. i suppose i could with the 226, hammer down position. that de-cocking lever is very clever. 1st shoot is double action, but no-biggie.

i am not familiar enough with the Glock. i'll keep it unchambered.

honestly, it wouldnt be too much of a delay to keep it locked slide back, completely unloaded. jack in a loaded mag, pull down on the release. go time!

on a side note,,the 10 round mags for my Glock SUCK! you need herculean strength to get that last round in. it is more of a 9.5 mag. stupid california.

in my safes at home ALL are loaded, NONE IN THE PIPE!


hunting NO ONE comes into camp with a LOADED SPOON!


when leaving in morning, we decide if we are hunting alone or with someone. alone WE HAVE ONE IN THE PIPE! together , NOBODY RACKS A ROUND until sighting game.



no spoons loaded in vehicles except for those sitting shotgun-KING OF THE ROADHUNTERS! LOL! "OVER THERE-SEE "EM? SHOOT 'EM SHOOT'EM GIT OFF THE ROAD!" SHOOT'EM GAWD DAMNIT! ARE YA FREEKING BLIND? YOU FREEKING RETARD! LOL!


no spoons loaded on quads. it aint a law yet here, but it sure as hell should be like colorado. nothing better than some clown driving up next to you and the freeking barrel of a WIN MAG pointed at you!



and thats why i nor my amigos have NEVER HAD AN AD!



cuz AD's SUCK BIG GIANT DONKEY WEINERS!

I should say that my 1911 is capable of a 1/4 cocked position. It was made in 1918. I carry with one in the pipe, at 1/4 cocked, safety on. The hammer does not rest on the firing pin that way and even if you do drop it it "should" not fire as the hammer does not have far enough to fall to light the primer.

What I find funny is the number of you who seem to think you are in a movie...

Interesting stuff here guys.

Fully Loaded??????
 

When I carry a handgun (yes, I have a concealed weapon permit) I usuallyleave the chamber of a semi-auto empty figuring it is easy and quick to work the slide to chamber a round (see exception below). However, if I'm carrying a revolver it is with a full load (5 or 6 rounds). So really, what is the difference between a fully loaded double action revolver and a DAO or DAO/SA pistol? With most of the new DAO/SA guns you can load the chamber and then use the decocker to safely drop the hammer. I even have one (FNP-357 Sig) that has the decocker that is also a safety. With this system, if the bad guy gets the gun and it is on "safe", it might give you enough time to reclaim the gun or at least get out of the line of fire. And, since you the owner have practiced often with the DAO/SA pistol (you do practice, don't you?), it is second nature to swipe the safety off while drawing. Common sense and training go hand in hand to make the weapon your advantage, not someone else's. IMHO.

The Glock by my bed has 1 in the chamber. The DAO revolver in my pocket has 1 under the hammer.

Glock-o-phobia give me the ell-oh-ellz.

What we need here is Sniper!

I have no problem at all with Glocks. Not my cup of tea for carry duty. I'll be buying one in the next few mos. for sure though.

Hmm Glock = Camaro/Mustang --> plentiful, cheap, get the job done, generally run regardless what you do to them, everybody's got one, easy to hotrod...

I always carry with one in the chamber though I switch up between DA with the safety off and SA with the safety engaged. I don't always carry my spare magazines (2x8), but they're always nearby.

OJU, I'm not sure from where your reverence for LE is derived, but it is misplaced. While some take it upon themselves to become incredibly well-trained and professional, the standards placed upon them by their departments tend to be fairly low. I've met plenty whom are absolutely mystified by a weapon with anything more than a trigger. Add in a decocking lever, heel-mag catch and a safety and they're clueless. I let ONE use my P9S at a range. He dropped the hammer on the safety twice, in quick succession, and that was the end. On the other hand, I know some cops that could shoot the nuts off a nat at 20yds with an unzeroed weapon and know the law better than most attorneys. It just seems that I come into contact with far more of the incompetent imbecil variety.

Targa, who is the maker of that shoulder holster? Do they make one that'll fit a P9S? I also have slightly longer arms and as a result don't find a strong side draw comfortable. Currently, I carry SOB, but I'm looking for a shoulder holster.

Interesting article.

Service Pistol Duty and Self-Defense Loads - M4Carbine.net Forums

No kidding....

Normally not chambered. On rare occasion I'll keep my "grab and go" gun chambered but as normal practice I don't.

It doesn't take that long to rack-n-roll and there's very little I can do with 18 rounds that I can't do with 17 (Glock 17).