Federal ID laws?

Cdnone1 · 01-06-2011, 06:47 PM

Is there a Federal Law that state Citizens must carry ID? If yes does anyone know the US Code?
Trying to help my son with some homework
Thanks
Steve

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

No law that I am aware, but there have been court cases where you are required to identify yourself to the police or other authorities, upon demand.

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

Hmmmm, I seem to remember there was a guy in SF that kept getting hassled for ID when he was walking around town, sued them and it went to the Supreme's. They upheld his right NOT to have ID.

Of course they could have over turned that by now.

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

what I found on the net...so it must be true

First, what the United States Supreme Court said. What the United States Supreme Court held in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Dist. Court (2004) 542 U.S. 177, was that a state could make it a crime for a person to refuse to identify himself (i.e., tell the officer his name and address) when lawfully detained for criminal activity. Note that the Supreme Court did NOT say that any kind of identification papers could be required, nor did they say that police officers could ordinarily arrest someone for refusing to identify himself absent a state law permitting that arrest. There is no law in the United States requiring everybody to carry ID, at least not yet.

There is NO law in California requiring anybody to carry identification. There is no law making it illegal for anyone (even someone lawfully detained) to fail to have identification papers or to refuse to identify himself (there was such a law, which was declared unconstitutional). Thus, Hiibel is of no effect in California, since there is no comparable law there. (It is, however, a crime to give a FALSE identification.)

A person CANNOT be arrested just for failing to identify himself or failing to have ID, even with a lawful detention. It is NOT interfering with an officer. The only effect of not having ID occurs if a police officer has probable cause to believe an arrestee has committed a criminal offense. A police officer who could otherwise give an arrestee a citation to appear would instead take the person into custody to appear before a magistrate. But this is ONLY if the officer has probable cause to believe the person has committed a crime--NOT just because the person did not have ID.

Of course, one must have identification in his or her possession when driving, and a police officer obviously can demand to see a drivers license from any driver lawfully detained.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

It's a state matter. Some states have "stop and identify" laws, but the feds don't have that power. IIRC, there was a court case that ruled it was a 5th Amendment issue, since ID'ing yourself to a LEO could constitute self-incrimination if you were wanted by police. I know AZ has a "stop and identify" law. Since I'm almost always in/on a vehicle and/or armed when in public, I can't tell the cop to pound sand just about anywhere. However, you can immediately ask if you're being detained or free to go and that starts the clock ticking for them to come up with a good reason for keeping you longer than 20-30 min.

Radioactive · 01-06-2011, 08:00 PM

Stop and Identify statutes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

wdfifteen · wdfifteen's Garage

My GF was stopped in our town for speeding. She didn't have her license, isn't an American citizen, didn't have the car registration or insurance card, and didn't know who the car belonged to. She got a fine for $60 after I gave proof that my company owned and insured the car.
In Arizona she would probably be in the electric chair, unless there is an exemption for Scandinavians.

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Don't you think it is kinda stupid to be in a car without your drivers license, especially when you don't own the car and you are not a US citizen?

GH85Carrera · GH85Carrera's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by red-beard

don't you think it is kinda stupid to be in a car without your drivers license, especially when you don't own the car and you are not a us citizen?

100+

I wonder what would happen if I was stopped in any European country with no ID and no insurance and no proof the car was even mine to drive.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by red-beard

Don't you think it is kinda stupid to be in a car without your drivers license, especially when you don't own the car and you are not a US citizen?

If you're not driving, it's perfectly legal. And most states aren't even allowed to ask if you're a citizen or not. If you're in a stop and ID state, you usually only have to give your name and maybe address. We don't (yet) have a national ID card or must-carry-national-ID law like many countries.

The Gaijin · 01-07-2011, 05:44 AM

The problem is - if you get caught up in something small like riding a bike on the sidewalk..

I have posed on this before. Guy moves to NYC, out on his bike with no ID, runs afoul of PD making a "quality of life" ticket quota, and spends the weekend in the tank..

Cops refused to call the Mrs. because their cell phone (only phone) was from an outside NYC area code and considered "long distance".

wdfifteen · wdfifteen's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by red-beard

Don't you think it is kinda stupid to be in a car without your drivers license, especially when you don't own the car and you are not a US citizen?

You tell her. My people have had enough trouble with Vikings.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

The problem is - if you get caught up in something small like riding a bike on the sidewalk..

I have posed on this before. Guy moves to NYC, out on his bike with no ID, runs afoul of PD making a "quality of life" ticket quota, and spends the weekend in the tank..

Cops refused to call the Mrs. because their cell phone (only phone) was from an outside NYC area code and considered "long distance".

Has such a thing really happened before? If you're getting stopped because of a crime or PC of having been involved in a crime, then yes, you'd better have ID on you. At the very least, just so the cop knows how to write your name on the cite. The purpose behind not having a stop and ID law is to keep cops from making unreasonable stops of pedestrians, who might feel compelled to talk to the police, when they really don't have to. The lesson here is - if you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

If you're not driving, it's perfectly legal. And most states aren't even allowed to ask if you're a citizen or not. If you're in a stop and ID state, you usually only have to give your name and maybe address. We don't (yet) have a national ID card or must-carry-national-ID law like many countries.

I'm certainly not arguing the point of not having an ID while walking. I still think it is pretty stupid to be doing anything without ID. If you're out excercising and get hurt, and can't talk, etc, knocked out, who knows, having ID is good.

But...Bicycles are subject to the same laws as motor vehicles, except for licensing.

Now I have to carry "an ID" while I'm riding. Although, I wonder if riding a bicycle would be considered "traveling". Hmmmmmm.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

I always carry ID. And in both my cell phones my wife's numbers are named as "WIFE," in case they find me dead or unconscious by the side of the road, cell phones nearby, they know whom to call instead of scrolling through all the names and nicknames, trying to figure out who is who.

MRM · 07:58 AM

There is no US identification card and there is no law that you must carry ID on you. Several European countries used to have national ID cards and you were required to carry your papers with you at all times, a la the USSR where the cops could demand to see your papers, confiscate them, and the next cop takes you in for not being in possession of your ID. There are deep and important Constitutional considerations that have so far prevented a national ID card and requirement to carry ID.

Obviously you have to have a driver's license with you when you drive, but that's just a state law that's part of driver regulation. Usually driving without a license in possession is a petty offense with a payable fine as a penalty as long as you actually do have a license. In Minnesota, I think the law is still on the books but it is not enforced as long as the driver can be identified and does have a valid license.

If you are lawfully stopped by a cop you must identify yourself. You don't have to have an ID on you, but you have to say who you are. If they have proper authority to detain you, they can hold you long enough to verify your identification, run you for warrants, etc. How long they can hold you and what lengths they can go through to ID you depends on the circumstances. If you are arrested you have to identify yourself and can be held until your identification is verified.

As far as I know, it is an open question whether a cop can encounter you in circumstances that do not rise to the level of a "stop" for which probable cause and reasonable suspicion do not exist, and demand identification. If a cop encounters you and is talking to you, generally speaking they can do a "Terry" frisk of you to make sure you don't have any obvious weapons that could threaten the cop. This is the pat down of outer clothes that you see cops do sometimes on TV when they stop a snitch in the street and roust him to get information out of him. Again, whether they can search you and the invasiveness of the search is on a continuum that depends on the circumstances.

I do not believe that it is settled law from the US Constitution that cops who get close enough to a Terry stop and frisk can demand ID without any other attachable suspicion. I don't believe the US Supreme Court has ever decided definitively whether cops can just stop people and demand their IDs. The justification for Terry frisks is officer safety and the search can't go beyond looking for weapons that are immediately accessible. The same justification doesn't hold true for IDs.

I know several states have ruled on this issue under their state constitutions and have generally found that cops can't just walk up to you and demand ID without a reasonable suspicion or probable cause to stop you. My analysis is that cops can't stop you and demand an ID without some other conduct or suspicion justifying the need to identify you, but neither my state's nor the US Supreme Court tend to take my advice on how to rule.