Wow Flatbutt, 12 months that is too long! Is that normal for the process to take that long? And is that the case all over the country? I can see why the enthusiast are flipping out on the regulatory delays. Once you do get clearance will you be able to purchase immediately from then on?

I have a rich uncle who keeps me in an endless supply of fancy sports cars. :D

And I am ashamed to admit, yes, we own a T5 wagon. It sucks. My wife loves it.

An you assed fer a pitcher wit a smile an a wave. Well, here's one fur ya...(Turn 4, Laguna Seca)


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295227903.jpg

Doing this for a job is different, you don't have a Constitutional right to a job that "shall not be infringed."

There already is an evaluation for buying a firearm, you have to fill out a form. The background check thing only picks up people who actually were committed for mental stuff, not everyone who has had treatment.

If you start restricting people for psych meds, where do you draw the line, anti-depressants, anxiolytics, anti-psychotics? Should you include people with drug and alcohol abuse issues? How crazy is too crazy? It is a pretty subjective thing a lot of the time, who is the arbiter of this?

I was chatting with my Dad, who happens to be an attorney. He is of the opinion that we have sort of painted ourselves into a corner with the PC stuff and concern over the freedom of the mentally ill taking precedence over safety concerns. For example, the stuff with Uncle Fester in Tuscon. The guy was a nut, with plenty of complaints about him, but he had not really done anything to justify the canvas jacket with the sleeves that buckle in the back, there is the rub. Sort of like if the crazy ex is stalking some gal, you can get a restraining order, maybe, but you can't just arrest them until something happens. I don't know what the answer is, but it won't be simple.

I see no problem at all with drug testing of applicants for a concealed weapons permit. And I have no problem at all with background checks of ANY weapons purchase, beyond an air rifle with a muzzle velocity below about 1000 fps.

I've dealt with several mentally ill people over the years, and it is a shame that we cannot as a community come together and agree that some people are just outside the bounds of safety. This Jared Loughner was outside the bounds years ago- yet nobody could do anything.

In Fort Lauderdale, I partially own a company that has rental properties; On my days off I trade my pilot uniform for a toilet snake and a multitester. Last year we evicted this guy who was 21 years old; he had moved in to the 400 square foot 1/1 with his girlfriend, and both were in local community college. About a month later, his toilet screwed up, and I wound up on the roof with the snake down the vent stack, trying to get his toilet to work. He was cheerful, she was not. What disturbed me was the smell of the apartment when I went inside:

A particular burnt smell that was a cross between burning pencil shavings and burning pepper. Any of you have an idea what that smell comes from? Well, I certainly did. I didn't comment on it- as landlord, if I don't see it, then I don't have to take action. I DID note the unhappy look on the female...

Well, five months later, the girl moves out and the boy cannot make the payments. We came real close to the eviction, when the guys mother called me [I was in Billings, Montana], and told me she was moving him out. I got home a day later, nd drove over there; My partner was already there, and the kid was on the phone, stoned out of his gourd, walking up and down the sidewalk while talking on his cellphone. I walked into the trashed apartment- there was food smeared all over the kitchen, there was dirt all around the baseboards, mouthwash had been splattered on one wall, and in the bedroom, the stupid stone-head had used acrylic paints from an art store to paint a huge four-foot rose on the bedroom wall. It was dark red at the ends of the petals, but faded to green and black for the stem. Above the rose was the word "DEATH" painted in dripping letters. His mom was hurriedly trying to clean the place while her son paced and yelled into his phone outside. She was quietly crying.

SO how bad I wanted to grab her and....

Giver her a hug.

THEN I wanted to walk outside and grab the scrawny Tim and BEAT 100% of HIS ASS! The problem with that is that when you are my age, you just cannot get away with that. Actually, yes I probably could, since I was the landlord....and I'm sure the redneck patrol [Fort Lauderdale Police department] would have seen it my way, but that isn't the way to solve his problem, despite how ::slobber!:: satisfying that would have been!

Quote: "These guys are evicting me! They don't care, they are friggin rich! They drive around in Porsches and they are kicking me out"

Quote: "All I want to do is smoke weed and talk to my friends. Is that too much to ask for? Why are they kicking me out?"

Quote" "My mom is a F###king B####h and she doesn't give a F#### about me, she's helping them throw me out!" He said this last as his mother was cleaning up his mess in the apartment he refused to pay for.

Well, it took three coats of Kills to paint over the acrylic "artwork", and then a coat of paint to restore the wall. There was over $1000 in damage to the inside of the unit, and we had to replace three internal doors. There are only three internal doors in this one-bedroom apartment, so he destroyed all three. All were gone, they simply weren't there. The toilet had been cracked; I had to replace it. The granit countertop survived, but it took two complete cleaning cycles by the self-cleaning oven to get the grime and oil out, and we had to leave the windows open while it was going on because it was about the same as having a barbecue grill operating in the apartment!

All this because this individual couldn't control himself.

"Tim" was no Jared Loughner [though, when we evicted him, I did have my weapon with me], but you can see from this how "out of orbit" people can get.

N

but a nut could still shoot yur' eye out...:)

Hmm, ok so where do I start my questions? Lets see.

Quote from Flattbutt "Is a physical exam or drug test prior to a job offer a violation of one's rights? But I think an evaluation of some sort has become necessary. But I can see difficulties with it. It took 12 months for me to get a purchaser's ID card and I have no history of anything dealing with the law. So such an evaluation could really be used by the gun control lobby to slow things down for law abiding people."

So is this typical that it took 12 mos. or is it just our state? I agree an evaluation of some sort may be in order. I think all would agree that we don't want a bunch loose cannons running around (not that we don't have that now) with loaded guns but 12 mounths seems an awfully long time with out a valid reason and an infrigment upon your rights?

Which makes me think. Do police officers have a mental eval before being issued a weapon? If so what does the eval entail?

As tevake asked are you then cleared for good and can buy a gun as/when you wish?


Tobra brings up some good points. where do we draw the line? What do we consider crazy or unfit or in some cases to irresponsible? Is a person with anxiety crazy or unfit? How about an individual with a DUI? Are they to irresponsible? How about a mugging victim? Will they have a propensity to discharge their weapon if someone over steps what they perceive is a safe boundary? The restraining order at least in NJ has been settled. The answer is no you can not possess a gun.

So Normy brings up a great point as well. So here we have a person a little off center influenced by drugs but is apparently under the radar. I f he were to apply for a gun knowing what we know what is the concensus on.

What I see in Normy's story goes out side our gun controll conversation though and is what I see as a larger problem. This kid wanted to do what he wanted to do and how dare anyone tell him he couldnt. He saw no problem with damaging someone elses property and blamed everyone including his mother for
his problems. No one is responsible for their own actions any longer.

drcoastline, since you don't believe its me in the photo I have a simple exercise you can perform. Simply pull up my "garage" photo and look at the guy driving the black 911. Thats weird, kinda looks like the guy in the photo with Jesse Jackson. Its me and my brother out for a Sunday drive. Now BOT, the latest news reports confirm the congresswoman's condition has been upgraded from critical to serious as she continues to recover. Wouldn't it be wonderful if she makes a full recovery and resumes her job in congress. All this talk about guns,gun control measures,psych evaluations for applicants is moot, as it will never happen anyway.The reason why I asked if you had ever been a victim of crime is because I have. On one occasion I even had a gun pointed pointblank in my face in a attempted robbery and it didn't scare me one bit. If you are living your life correctly the possibility of death is not so scary...

patiently waiting...

dennis, the bad news is you just don't get it, a conversation about morals and how they relate to gun ownership and other rights is the one we should be having. The good news is, I will be around to add my personal views on the aforementioned subject as I deem it necessary...

heres (2) things ya cant have in kalif. at the same time together.................... as well as other states and countries............ car jacking? WHAT ME WORRY????http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295270660.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295270798.jpg

and our latest anti car jacking tool................http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295271333.jpg

and for THOSE carjackers and psycho deranged badguys w/SENSITIVE EARS..........well we can ACCOMO-DATE THEM ALSO!http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1295273575.jpg



it OUR WAY of saying CRIME DONT PAY!


DO ARIZONA............................DO TIME!

scoe, one day you may actually contribute to a discussion, perhaps you already have regarding cars. Tell your psychiatrist to keep a stiff upper lip every time you see them, I am sure they need the encouragement.

dennis, One more question, I will admit I'm new to the game but, What does a personality disorder have to do with forum posting etiquette? I cant quote myself or post multiple times why?... because you say so... what happened to freedom of expression? Thanks for trying to psychoanalyze me doctor but this is just the way I (express) myself...your precious rules be damned...

tobra, I dont know what to say... was that a compliment you just gave me?:)

Scoe, First of all, I want to apologise for my extreme crankiness on those posts. I had the flu this past weekend and was stuck in my apartment with a high fever and not a lot to do but read things on the internet. (OK, I cracked a couple of books and watched some James Bond on DVD but you get the picture).

I was a little annoyed that this thread, a rare one that actually deals with something important, got derailed with what I saw as a petty argument between a couple of posters. Those are not rare around here, unfortunately...

Still, my somewhat personal attack was uncalled for and actually against the forum rules, strictly speaking. FWIW, I was annoyed at the others involved, not just you, but that does not ameliorate the offense and I am sorry.

You seem like a nice guy and I welcome you here. Nice car, too, BTW. Great taste. I'm a fellow midwesterner, (Mpls.), and I have no doubt that we would get along like bandits in person. Sometimes the electronically written word leaves a lot to be desired in terms of interpersonal relations and I need to practice more restraint, at least when I have a fever of 102.

Wow! Isn't that dangerously high for an adult?! Glad you're feeling better.

But regardless of how hot you were, you can't unring a bell...and you can't unslap a b!tch slap.

Just kidding! :D

Apology accepted...and I agree about the limitations of the written word...Dr King would be proud...and I mean that sincerely...

With the ID card I can purchase long guns rather easily but not hand guns. After getting the ID card it took me four months to get cleared for my first handgun. My second handgun took 30 days and would have taken longer if I hadn't checked with the local PD. Apparently it had been cleared in 3 weeks but they didn't bother to notify me.

I should add that at the time of the first hand piece I was living in Paterson, a very high crime area.

But you can see how complicated this will get. You're correct in asking where do we draw the line? And i believe that is precisely how we've arrived at this point. No easy way to draw a line so no line gets drawn.

Maybe the question is...how do we prevent the shooter from becoming a shooter in the first place? That is, someone who does not care if they take lives. How do we get them to respect the lives of others?

It may seem absurd at first glance but consider....given how big a problem drunken driving is, why haven't we made it harder for drunks to get into a car?