Another execution-by-police

[stogie25]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

No but if the Cop would have taken a second to look it would have been better.

I'm glad that I'm not in the position to have to use deadly force.

Of course not on both counts.

I am glad that I not in the muscle end of the business as well. Some decisions you have .1 seconds to make and the rest of your life to live with the consequences of.

I had friends that made the wrong decision, and the rest of their lives was a very short time.

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by stogie25

Most of my post will be edited tonight as I have a co typist (my cat is sitting on my lap in front of the computer).

Visualizing Schwarzenegger holding a kitty cat.

[stogie25]

An old picture of her. Sadly the dog is the wife's, I belong to the cat.

[Arizona_928]

that's a pretty grainy video and I can tell that's a golf club. The cop saw something jump out at him and he fired. Imagine if it was a kid or something.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by Gogar

We do know.
They found out the guy they were looking for had moved out,

They found out the guy who still lived there was not a drug dealer,

As confirmed by the fact that they tried to 'detain him' so he wouldn't be in the house.

You know, so they could do the 'no knock' for the guy who they knew didn't live there.

And they forgot to bring the warrant with them.

Then, they busted in and shot the guy with the dangerous golf club.

The prize? .25 oz of marijuana, and an empty bottle that may or may not at one time have contained some meth.

100% correct based on what has been fed to us by youtube and the media.

What we don't know is what the cops knew or thought they knew before entering the property.

[stogie25]

I have been at several incidents, one in particular where I was one of six people in our mobile command post (so I know there was nobody from the press present) and listened to the press tell a complete fiction about what happened after the fact.

I still have to say that the video, and the evidence that we have been given lead me to the conclusion that the police had no business there. The fourth amendment is a sacred right, and a judge had to sign off on that warrant. That means that either there was more going on then reported, or that somebody royally screwed up.

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

100% correct based on what has been fed to us by youtube and the media.

Yes you're right, and I agree that the media likes to exaggerate. However, these media reports (from which I paraphrased) seem to be taken from transcripts of the post-shooting investigation, and the testimony of the shooting officer himself.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by Gogar

Yes you're right, and I agree that the media likes to exaggerate. However, these media reports (from which I paraphrased) seem to be taken from transcripts of the post-shooting investigation, and the testimony of the shooting officer himself.

All good...

The shooting officer will have to deal with what he has done for a very long time.

[Moses]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Wow. What is happening to our country? How did we ever reach the point where this is even remotely acceptable? Nazi stormtrooper tactics have taken root in America's police forces. Cowardly bastards in police uniforms, pretending they are in some high-risk military unit engaging a hostile enemy force are now knocking down American citizens' doors and shooting them in their homes. Puffing their chests out and strutting about, telling friends and relatives how brave they are and how dangerous their jobs are. Internal investigations and friendly D.A.'s declaring such actions "justified". My God, what has happened to my country?

It's long past time to send these cowboys packing, to de-militarize our police forces. Long past time for citizens' reviews of all police shootings, with the teeth to send these clowns to jail for the rest of their miserable lives. Too many innocent, non-violent, non-threatening citizens are dying at the hands of our over zealous special-forces-wannabe cops.

These cowards are shooting and killing with what amounts to virtually absolute impunity; it's time to make them slow down and think about it a bit. Time to make them think that maybe a no-knock military style raid on a home in which they know the (non-violent) suspect no longer lives, in which his room mate is likely to be at the time, may not be such good fun. These guys knew they no longer had any reason whatsoever to carry out their raid, but, in our current environment, they also knew they had no reason to call it off. So, why not? It's just too much fun and excitement to pass up, with virtually no risk whatsoever on any front. Not from the resident, not from their department, not from the D.A. Hell, warrant in hand (or actually back on someone's desk) - PARTY!!!

My God...

Agree 100%

Where is the outrage?

[asterix031]

...and there lies the conundrum.

We can accept that a decision made in a tenth of a second was a kill-or-be-killed decision by an officer, but at the very same time we cannot accept the loss of a life due to a series of failures by those employed to serve and protect.

Of course, we will account for human error, but at the very same time a person or a series of persons still need to be strongly held accountable otherwise next time you look out your window it will look like an all-out computer on-line wargame out there no matter where you live.

Seriously, if procedural failures and accidental deaths become too forgivable, everyone will sleep with one eye open and their gun at hand. I'm happy I don't have to.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by stogie25

It sounds like a real screw up on the part of the PD to be there at all.

The guy who lived there screwed up even worse by being home. Used to live there I mean.

How is that guy going to hurt anyone from across the room, even if it were a samurai sword?

I hope the guy killed had some family who can at least get millions and millions of dollars for that.

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

All good...

The shooting officer will have to deal with what he has done for a very long time.

Yeah, and the victim had to deal with it the rest of his life, a very, very short time.

This happened months ago and this is the first that any of us have heard of it. Can anyone guess how many times that similar things happened since this did?





I can tell you, too many.


This should outrage everyone who learns about it. Sadly, it will continue to happen.

[Moses]

Originally Posted by asterix031

...and there lies the conundrum.

Why are "no knock" warrants ever issued for non-violent suspects? It seems like an enormously risky situation for police and citizens.

Seems appropriate only for cases where public safety is in immediate danger.

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by Moses

Why are "no knock" warrants ever issued for non-violent suspects? It seems like an enormously risky situation for police and citizens.

Seems appropriate only for cases where public safety is in immediate danger.

Yeah, but he was . . . . smoking weed!!!!!!! And he knew a girl who may or may not have sold it to him! Won't somebody think of the children?

Nevermind that in Colorado you can legally drive to the dispensary, eat a tray of pot brownies in the store, and drive away.

[asterix031]

Originally Posted by Moses

Why are "no knock" warrants ever issued for non-violent suspects? It seems like an enormously risky situation for police and citizens.

Seems appropriate only for cases where public safety is in immediate danger.

Because "these pot-heads" are a menace to our society who will go out and do nasty things to your kitten if they aren't stopped. This will turn you into a murderer during your act of revenge. So to stop you becoming a murderer, they have to stop the pot-head in the first place with all force necessary.

Or at least, that is how it was explained to me...

[HardDrive]

Murder.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Murder.

It's not as simple as that... I'm not sure of the legal term. Maybe unlawful killing.

The cops didn't go there to kill him. They reacted to a perceived threat the way they are trained to do so.
As it turns out it was an inappropriate response based on the facts surrounding the shooting. But those facts only came to light after the raid.

The whole incident was extremely regrettable.

[Brando]

I read through quite a few of the replies here. I must say I agree with Jeff Higgins 100%.

In response to sc_rufctr: We should stop militarizing our Police departments and maybe we should also stop training them to kill people. Last I read, life, liberty and property shall not be taken [by the government] without due process. Police entering a house absent a warrant is a gross 4A violation, not to mention execution without due process.

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

Gogar

You need to relax a little... There is no way you can assess the threat level based on that video.
We don't know what happened just before the police entered the property.
I'm not condoning what they did but you must try and understand the police office who shot the suspect made a decision based on what he saw at that moment time.

If you ever talk to a police officer who has shot someone they will most probably tell you they don't even remember pulling the trigger.
Instincts kick in... Their training helps but the police officers reaction (note I didn't say response) is based on what he perceives to be the situation at that moment.

That perception can be very distorted... The adrenalin is pumping and they have less than 1/2 a second to make a decision.

I wish it was a better than that but unfortunately that's the environment they work in.

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

I wish it was a better than that but unfortunately that's the environment they work in.

True dat. But part of the uproar seems to be that--in this case--the officers of the law seemed to have created a great deal of this "environment."

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by stogie25

The sad part is that if my house had a no knock entry warrant I would probably be the first one dead (maybe the second) firing at the intruders from my bedroom. In my case it would be better to just knock on the door and hand me a warrant... .

Yep, a "no knock" entry (with or without a warrant) would be a death sentence for many on this board (myself included). Think about it...

[silverwhaletail]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Wow. What is happening to our country? How did we ever reach the point where this is even remotely acceptable? Nazi stormtrooper tactics have taken root in America's police forces. Cowardly bastards in police uniforms, pretending they are in some high-risk military unit engaging a hostile enemy force are now knocking down American citizens' doors and shooting them in their homes. Puffing their chests out and strutting about, telling friends and relatives how brave they are and how dangerous their jobs are. Internal investigations and friendly D.A.'s declaring such actions "justified". My God, what has happened to my country?

It's long past time to send these cowboys packing, to de-militarize our police forces. Long past time for citizens' reviews of all police shootings, with the teeth to send these clowns to jail for the rest of their miserable lives. Too many innocent, non-violent, non-threatening citizens are dying at the hands of our over zealous special-forces-wannabe cops.

These cowards are shooting and killing with what amounts to virtually absolute impunity; it's time to make them slow down and think about it a bit. Time to make them think that maybe a no-knock military style raid on a home in which they know the (non-violent) suspect no longer lives, in which his room mate is likely to be at the time, may not be such good fun. These guys knew they no longer had any reason whatsoever to carry out their raid, but, in our current environment, they also knew they had no reason to call it off. So, why not? It's just too much fun and excitement to pass up, with virtually no risk whatsoever on any front. Not from the resident, not from their department, not from the D.A. Hell, warrant in hand (or actually back on someone's desk) - PARTY!!!

My God...

I agree 100%.

I've been scared schitless MANY times when serving search warrants, ESPECIALLY when "assisting" the DEA. (How is it that I'm "assisting" when I'm the first cowardly bastard through the door??????)

For what??? A dope arrest???? A money seizure????? Who gives a F-ck about drugs in these schitty neighborhoods???? Its not my neighborhood, why shoud I care? Besides, the people who live next door are watching and HOPING that I get shot in the face the split second that I go through that door. The entire F-cking thing is BS.

Ive been a cop for many years and I have never seen how it has EVER been my responsibility to make a dynamic entry into a dope house to arrest some drug dealer or Felon with a dope warrant who BAILED OUT or was RELEASED because the A-hole taxpayers are too cheap to pay for jail space. So let me get this straight, I arrested him once and you let him out pending trial. I arrested him again and you let him out pending trial. And now I am being ordered to go into a house, that is possibly fortified, possibly occupied by heavily armed career criminals or possibly has kids sleeping on the living room floor, directly adjacent to my point of entry, AFTER YOU LET HIM OUT????

Point me toward a house where a psychotic father is holding his kid hostage and ask me to confront the father and save the kid. No problem. Thats what I signed up for. But send me into a a F-king dope house that the FEDS have done half ass surveillance on and have written a F-king search warrant based on a F-king three month old utility bill that was found in the glovebox of a seized drug seizure vehicle or was found in "prisoners property" the last time that the dealer got booked????

Finally, how about this??? If you don't want to live in a drug infested, crime ridden neighborhood, why not consider getting a F-cking job or two, or three, get your priorities straight, and move your family the F-ck out???

I'm with Jeff Higgins on this one. F-ck these elected officials who task police officers to go into these hell-holes and try to clean up these areas that don't want to be cleaned up. F-ck these poor people in these poor neighborhoods.

Equal protection under the law should not be guaranteed for every American citizen. Equal protection should only be for the people who can afford it.