Assasination attempt in Arizona

[911pcars]

What's happening in AZ fellas?

Congresswoman Giffords shot, badly wounded in Arizona - Yahoo! News

PS: Sorry, covered in PARF.

[ODDJOB UNO]

apparently this happened roughly 10am our time. i found out about it after getting home roughly 530pm. its plastered across the news here and rightfully so.

22 year white male nut job takes a "glock-19" and goes to front of line to visit with congresswoman. told to go to back of line. goes to back of line comes back,walks behind her and shoots her point blank in head. judge rolle(sp) just happened to be there and also was shot. along with 9 yr old girl and others. last count was 6 dead, 19 shot. numbers keep changing by the news show.

apparently weapon was purchased legally, extended magazine bought after the weapon purchase.

tucson police chief did say this guy was on their "radar" for other infractions but nothing they could hold him on. was not any more specific.


my question was where was SECURITY and why wasnt anyone carrying concealed to thwart such an attack.

its a sad day here, and you can bet yer azz all of us law abiding spoon owners will take the fall for this clown/morons actions.

there will be so much media attention on this in tucson, trial will more than likely be moved to phx. and thats when i may get called on this morons jury.............and get to press the "PERMANENT DELETE" button on his sorry worthless azz.

[drcoastline]

Unfortunately I think we are in for a lot more of this type of behavior over the coming years. This may be one or two crazed people but there are a lot of people out there harboring a tremendous amount of anger due to the state of the economy. I heard on the news a few days ago personal bankruptcies were up in the last quarter of 2010 and expected to increase in 2011.

I am not a gun owner and don't have any desire to be a gun owner. But I sure do hope you are wrong ODDJOB about them blaming this on law abiding gun owners. This guy may have purchased the gun legally but if he was that determined to do what he did he would have found away and no law would have prevented it.

What I don't get is how did all of these people get shot? If he shot the congress woman point blank how did the bullets go flying all over the place?

Also, how does am extended magazine work? I understand the magazine slides inside the handle so does an extended magazine hang below the handle of the gun?

My prayers go out to you all in AZ especially the family of the little girl.

[Rick V]

The thing that bothers me the most is that I could actually read OddJob's post.
I can't help thinking this is going to be James Brady all over again, and I am still wondering how this fruit cake managed to get that close to the senator. There are a lot of questions here and it seems to me that a lot of mistakes were made. It is a crime that some people have to pay for those mistakes.

[ODDJOB UNO]

for a glock 19............you get (3) flavors of mags from factory brochure. 17rd,19rd,33rd.


guy was tackled after shooting stopped, was he doing a mag change and going for more kills who the hell knows.


all i know its pretty damn STOOPID if yer in the public eye, that NO SECURITY detail WAS THERE! now that is just plain STOOPID!

come on here..............this day and age???? WTF? any political figure should have security. and as always, law abiding people take it in the shorts as far as having/ using firearms. what makes this so goofy is all of us upon discussing this figured the bad guy to be around 45-47 years old,, white, h.s.GED, house foreclosed, divorced, laid off from job, his job outsourced to freeking zimbawe, 24/7/365 rush limbaugh piped into his home,type of guy.


well hes 22, white, some college until kicked out because of his printed you tube manifesto, mein kampf ramblings etc. mark my words, new legislation for firearms will be forthcoming after the dust settles on this one.


now this occurred at a safeway store on the s.w. side of tucson. now you mean to tell me at 10am, there were no cops on duty there, no store security, no congresswoman security, no judge security and not (1) person with a AZCCW carrying in that entire area????????



i went to my safeway yesterday CCW for my groceries...................BE PREPARED...........it can happen ANYWHERE...............ANYTIME!

[drcoastline]

Once again UNO I hope your wrong about new legislation but you are probably right. Law makers are reactive not proactive and when they do all they will do is take more rights away from the law abiding. Again if this nu job wanted to complete this task no law is going to stop him.

I don't get why the congresswoman didn't have some sort of security around either. Apparently the shooting took place during a meet and greet in a tent in the parking lot not in the store. Eye witness says shooter was reloading when he got hit on the head by a chair and then tackled.

[VaSteve]

Lol @ Rick V's comment on oddjob.

Security for people less than than the president is just that. Much less. These folks get elected by the people, they need to meet with the people. I see congress folks all the time out and about, but I work in DC.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

What I don't get is how did all of these people get shot? If he shot the congress woman point blank how did the bullets go flying all over the place?

Also, how does am extended magazine work? I understand the magazine slides inside the handle so does an extended magazine hang below the handle of the gun?

He was able to shoot so many people because no one else there shot him first. You know the old Edmund Burke quote about evil triumphing when good men do nothing. These kinds of situations only ever end when the bad guy run out of ammo because cops can't be everywhere to stop crimes in progress. They clean up the mess and chase the bad guys.

An extended mag is one that sticks out the bottom of the gun a little and holds more rounds than the stock mag. for that gun. But it doesn't really matter here. You can do as much damage with two 10 rd. mags as with one 20 rd. mag. It takes 2 seconds to change mags if you know what you're doing. Or, as they always show in the movies, you could use have two handguns and not have to reload.

[billybek]

From my limited range experience with a S&W 9mm hand spoon, you can spew out a lot of bullets in a short period of time. Even if there was someone armed at the gathering, it would take time to react and find the target. Less time required to empty the clip.
The people who took this guy down when he was changing clips are heroes and should be treated as such.
Killing randomly and especially a 9 year old girl, I hope he suffers.

[drcoastline]

OMG- the mother of the little girl is on TV she is so strong. I just can not imagine. Tragic . It makes me want to lock my 10 year old little girl in her room forever so nothing can happen to her. Tragic.

Rick- What I don't get is if he was targeting the congresswoman and shot her point blank he accomplished his goal. Then what? Did he start shooting at random? Of course none of it makes any sense and I am sure the shooter will never say so the answer may never be known.

I think good people did do something it just takes time to react. I have shot hand guns on a few occasions and 10 rounds can go in just a few seconds. So by the time it registers what is happening a lot of damage has already been done. Of course even with security present I do not believe this event would have been prevented. Maybe a few less victims. Then again with more guns in the mix maybe more victims.

[Gogar]

+1 it's unlikely that even the best security could have stopped the congresswoman from getting shot. Maybe they could have stopped the rest of the tragedy from playing out, though.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

Rick- What I don't get is if he was targeting the congresswoman and shot her point blank he accomplished his goal. Then what? Did he start shooting at random? Of course none of it makes any sense and I am sure the shooter will never say so the answer may never be known.

That he shot so many other people proves he was a raging nutbag and not just some determined political assassin. And it takes some pretty deliberate shooting to hit that many people. That's not random firing. That's walking up to each person and shooting them from a few ft. (at most) away. There would have been plenty of time for an armed citizen to take him out, had there been one there. The only question is how long it would have taken for someone to figure out what was going on and who the bad guy was. There have been police shootouts with several hundred bullets flying where no one was hit. This guy was deliberate and unimpeded by anything but his ammo capacity.

[ODDJOB UNO]

the latest is that a guy coming out of a walgrens drug store was CCW and saw a man and a woman on top of bad guy after being tackled. he elected NOT to pull his spoon and basically joined in dog pile on top of bad guy.


so despite CCW on premise this guy had enough time to get away with murder.


this is all armchair 1/4 back at this time. could have would have should have.


bottomline is congresswomans TOTAL LACK of SECURITY, and forethought before such events.


will be interesting to see ATF "yellow form" filled out by this guy. local community college would NOT allow him to matriculate back into school WITHOUT a PSYCH EVALUATION!


glock purchased at local tucson "sportsmans warehouse" chain of sporting goods stores in tucson and phx. purchase made i think in nov. 2010.


lets just pray those injured get past the critical stage, and get off life support and recover.


this was just on meet the press. nationwide coverage. nationwide CHANGES coming up here re: how you get to speak with your representitives. ie. take a number, we do background check, search you as you come on premises, go into locked cell, speak with representative thru bulletproof glass.


sheeeesh!



and years ago right here on lil ol pelican OT, the vast majority here thought I was some nutjob because i was bestowing the VIRTUES of carrying concealed, carrying concealed DAILY, and my opinions on crime happening ANYWHERE/ANYTIME!


now maybe some of you will have the "LIGHTBULB" go on and understand completely that crime does not walk away from YOU because of your background, your intellect, your money, your last name, how many posts YOU have here!



by the way for those of you following my AZCCW drills............this has been PROCLAIMED "HK USP COMPACT ROBAR 9mm(night sites)" month. and when at home, we utilize the HK UTL tactical light. which also retrofits onto the HK COMPACT TACTICAL USP .45(night sites). a match made in heaven.

the last (2) months have been "WALTHER PPK/S" months for concealed carry.

its kind of like 'ol rooster cogburn remarking to the gal in true grit..........."well since yer carrying round that old hawg leg.............you dont have to worry about NO BOO-GAR MAN!"

[drcoastline]

So I guess after he accomplished his mission he decided he was going to have some fun before he was taken out? One of the reports said he posted some where "good bye friends" so I guess he was expecting to be killed and was going to take out as many as possible before going?

I am sure the law makers will react negatively and impose some sort of gun law? But, I think the reaction should be different. IMO- rather then more gun control laws the a law should be placed on the public figures to provide security to keep the public safe. Law makers, athletes, entertainers, etc. It should be set up so the public is safe when meeting them. In the future events like this should be set up in doors. They should not be allowed to have large crowds gather around them with out security to protect the public. Security should be set up at the entrance to door to the building everyone entering the building should be required go through a metal detector. I say this not for the protection of the public figure but for the safety of the public. So 6 more people don't get struck down needlessly. One could say the congresswoman should have anticipated the possibility a nut job may try at some point to take her out but the public shouldn't be in danger if someone does make an attempt.

[911pcars]

To coin this guy's own video text,

This guy performed an act of terrorism.

Thus, this guy is a terrorist.

S

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

I am sure the law makers will react negatively and impose some sort of gun law?

No gun law would have prevented this, nor would new ones prevent this from happening again. It takes some real determination to do what this monster did. In the history of crime, I've never heard a would-be killer say he wasn't able to kill someone because he couldn't get a hold of the right weapon. That doesn't mean stupid politicians won't try to pass more feel-good, do-nothing laws. How does someone even come up with the idea that a mass murderer will be deterred by a weapons charge or won't be able to get his gun by some other means? And AZ is about the gun-friendliest, most heavily-armed state. No new gun laws are going to work here, even if people bothered complying with them.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Politician Rule #137: "Never let a good tragedy go to waste"

Agree with OJ and others - I guarantee this will be spun in such a way as to vilify gun owners and anyone else who believes anything at all contrary to the current party line.

Politicians care nothing about lives or the dignity of human life - it's agenda uber alles, all the time with these clowns. And their agenda is total control.

[drcoastline]

Rick- I agree fully. No gun law would have prevented this. If not there he would have done it somewhere else. More gun laws will not accomplish anything. If this guy couldn't find a gun he would have used a different weapon. The way this event was set up he could have just as easily used his car.

The news just reported that the congresswoman had received threats prior to this event. I hate to point figures in light of what happened but I think this was very reckless on the part of the Congresswoman.

[Crowbob]

This, thank the Lord, is a rare tragedy. Drunk dirvers wreak havoc and mayhem much more frequently with many, many more innocents dying by every measure. Yet, we tolerate the sale and possession of alcohol. The argumant can be made that the drunk driving laws have resulted in fewer such tragedies but no one is seriously demanding a ban on alcohol.

[drcoastline]

True that Crowbob. It just goes to show another law or more restrictions isn't going to stop something like this from happening.

We have drinking and driving laws, people still drink and drive.
We have speeding laws, people still speed.
We have laws against certain drugs, people still use and sell them.
We have laws against murder, people still commit murder.

If someone wants to do something they are going to do it come hell or high water, their death or the death of others.

Another gun law isn't going to change that.