What are my rights in an IRS audit?

[ODDJOB UNO]

i wasnt "randomly selected". i was their "HONORED" guest.



once again read herbst corp. vs u.s. gubbermint.



their crap is still being sold for back taxes for pennies to the 10,000 dollar bill. boats vehicles buildings etc.


i dont think herbst gaming/herbst oil/herbst off road racing was "randomly" selected either!


this is kind of like seeing a cop on the side of the road.....................and deciding to do 150mph in front of him just to piss him off!

[boba]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Yes, I understand the accounting aspect of it. My question is - why would you go to the appointment? If the local police knocked on my door (or approached me in my garage, since I don't answer my door) for ANY reason and wanted me to come down to the station, I'd tell them to come back with a warrant. And even then, I'd sit in that room and keep my mouth shut.

The difference is that if you do not show up they will just seize any assets you may have. You will get a letter that your bank account has been frozen or they have taken your money to satisfy their claim. And the bank will just send them your money. It will than play he11 to get your money back even if you did not owe it. The IRS does not play by the same rules as the rest of law enforcement in this country. You are guilty until you prove your innocence.

They will often tell you what they are interested in. If they do, only bring documentation related to that issue. If you bring more they will look at it and if they find something else you have just opened yourself up. They can also do a complete audit in which they will want to look at your total return + a cavity search.

And yes I did have them take $175 from one of my accounts for a mistake that they made and which was being cleared up by the IRS folks that made the mistake. But the guys who were tasked to collect would not listen or even check with their colleagues on the other side of the partition, they just took the money out of my account. Took 6 months to get it back, no apology and no interest. We (my CPA) did get one agent fired for cause, incompetence.

[boba]

Originally Posted by BlueSkyJaunte

I'm pretty sure you have a "right" to a jar of Vaseline, and that's about it.

That's where you are incorrect, you have no rights.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by boba

The difference is that if you do not show up they will just seize any assets you may have. You will get a letter that your bank account has been frozen or they have taken your money to satisfy their claim.

WTF? Pretty sure there's some pesky thing in the Const. to the effect that "no person shall be denied life, liberty or property without due process." What claim do they have by just asking me to assist in their audit? A claim or tax debt/delinquency is when they are owed money. And seizing assets comes when you refuse to pay what you owe. That's not remotely what I'm talking about.

Let me spell this out again because the sheeple factor here is strong. I'm not refusing to pay taxes. I always file and do so honestly within the bounds of the letter and spirit of the law.

I get a letter in the mail saying I was selected for an audit. No accusation of underpayment is implied, just show up at 1 Federal Plaza on such and such a date, bring three years of receipts. Why the f&** would I go along with that? How can they seize assets when there's not even a charge, let alone a conviction, of any additional tax owed? They can seize assets because you don't show for an appt.? I mean, the Const. doesn't mean much anymore, but it's not totally gone yet.

[boba]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

WTF? Pretty sure there's some pesky thing in the Const. to the effect that "no person shall be denied life, liberty or property without due process." What claim do they have by just asking me to assist in their audit? A claim or tax debt/delinquency is when they are owed money. And seizing assets comes when you refuse to pay what you owe. That's not remotely what I'm talking about.

Let me spell this out again because the sheeple factor here is strong. I'm not refusing to pay taxes. I always file and do so honestly within the bounds of the letter and spirit of the law.

I get a letter in the mail saying I was selected for an audit. No accusation of underpayment is implied, just show up at 1 Federal Plaza on such and such a date, bring three years of receipts. Why the f&** would I go along with that? How can they seize assets when there's not even a charge, let alone a conviction, of any additional tax owed? They can seize assets because you don't show for an appt.? I mean, the Const. doesn't mean much anymore, but it's not totally gone yet.

If you choose not to show up they will try again, but they will not play games. Tell them to get a warrant and my guess is that they will recalculate your return using their interpretation of your figures disallowing anything they question and then take any monies owed. You did in effect tell them to F'off.
I was working with them to clear up a mistake that was made by one of their agents which had already been ruled in my favor and they still seized funds. So yes they can and will.
They will work with you to reschedule but if you want to play it will be by their rules in their sandbox. You can win but it will take a lot of your time and effort.

[boba]

Rick, I do not disagree with your sentiments on this. But having dealt with the IRS has given me an insight into how little our view of what most believe to be our relationship with our Constitutional government is at odds with how the IRS operates.

[dafischer]

It's bad juju telling the IRS to F off. When they request an audit, they tell you specifically what they want to look at. It's not like a trial where you can plead the fifth, since you submitted a tax return to them containing specific information.
They want to verify that you have sufficient supporting documentation to back up your tax reporting. They have norms for specific categories for expenses and deductions, and when something pops up outside these norms, it can generate an audit. If you make noise and protest this, they will simply start applying the hairy eyeball to the rest of the returns that you have submitted, and you'd better hope that you have backup documentation for anything you have ever claimed.
In short, they will make your life miserable, and probably cost you a lot of dollars in accountants fees. And like in a court of law, anyone who defends himself in front of the IRS has a fool for a client.
I have to agree with Webb on this one: Enrolled Agent, or Tax Attorney. CPA stands for cut, paste, and assemble, and they're not as current on tax law as one would think.
I know from experience, since my wife is an EA, we have a tax and accounting practice together, and she has been through several of these audits for our clients. Some advice: Don't mess with the IRS.

[ODDJOB UNO]

rick years ago after my fun(?) with the IRS...........i hired a professional certified CPA. i pay him really astounding pesos to oversee that everything is on time, and everything paid correctly. my write offs documented to the feeking "T"!


i am self employed on quarterly payments. he is constantly employed year around. unlike H&R block clowns who werk 4 months and then sit on their azz. he has a masters degree in accounting, and he constantly goes to classes to stay updated on current tax law. he is in paradise valley. he does peoples accounts that their worth would astound any of us. he is about 70 yrs old. he knows his poo backwards and forwards and sideways.


he has some real good advice. if ya have the write off, and ya have the receipt, then take the write off. if its legit!

working from home and taking an insane write off on work space is the NUMBER 1 IRS RADAR BLIP!


next on the list.............


race cars/trucks/bikes
boats
horses
entertainment
planes.


since i have been doing this gig for quite a few years now , i have this down to a science. down to a labeled box for all receipts from biz mart for each tax year state and federal. labeled medical/dental/vehicles/office/tools/ supplies/etc etc.


anyone that tells you they as a tax preparer can slay the IRS is a joke and a stroke.


if ya didnt pay enough thru the year, then you owe the IRS.

if ya paid correctly(like me), i dont get anything back.


now why do you think i pay big pesos to a certified CPA from paradise valley?????




so I NEVER HAVE TO DICK AROUND WITH THE IRS EVER!

[enzo1]

an acquaintance of mine, very powerful person, sued the IRS and actually won... that was 2yrs ago, he has yet to get paid. I was audited business and personal going back 7 yrs..... not effin fun! This is the WRONG administration to be messing with ... they are out for blood

[Rick Lee]

Well, my tax returns are legit and I can back everything up very easily without having to get creative. I still see no reason to cooperate unless there's a law saying I have to do so. Being honest has nothing to do with cooperating. If the IRS says I underpaid, obviously, that's something I'd have to address. But just fishing via an audit, I don't think I'm going to bite down on that hook.

[nynor]

if you don't show up or demand a warrant, they freeze all your bank/trading/money accounts. if you own a business, they freeze those as well. in fact, they sometimes just freeze those accounts and then invite you to play. they did this to my uncle who was a dentist. i can guaran-effing-tee you that he was squeaky clean. then, all your checks bounce, your business flounders, you can't pay your bills. THEN, when you prove that you are on the up and up, they say thanks and get back in their ford four door and drive away.

[ODDJOB UNO]

Originally Posted by nynor

if you don't show up or demand a warrant, they freeze all your bank/trading/money accounts. if you own a business, they freeze those as well. in fact, they sometimes just freeze those accounts and then invite you to play. they did this to my uncle who was a dentist. i can guaran-effing-tee you that he was squeaky clean. then, all your checks bounce, your business flounders, you can't pay your bills. THEN, when you prove that you are on the up and up, they say thanks and get back in their ford four door and drive away.

sounds like the 3'6"-4 ft wide navajo IRS girl i had! man she sharpened her pencil umpteen mill-yon times and NEVER used her eraser!

i felt like i was custer at the lil big horn that day!


the IRS is kind of like the FBI.............they drive 4-door crown vics with tinted windows and govt plates but they have BIGGER BADGES! and they dont need no stink-in badges!

[Rick Lee]

So the IRS can seize your assets when there's no court order or even charge of underpayment? I find that hard to believe. And banks comply with this?

[chocolatelab]

Ask wesley snipes about taxes and the constitution. I think he takes visitors on tuesdays and fridays.

In case this ends up in IRS world for the record, i love paying taxes and try to over pay every year

[Rick Lee]

When I was a kid in a tiny town in TX, a neighbor of ours was an IRS auditor. He drove an old VW bug and sometimes his kids and I carpooled to soccer practice and such. I remember being in the front seat of his car once when he open the glove box for something and I saw a badge and gun in there. At the time my mom was doing some under the table work and told my sister and me to never mention her job in front of that neighbor or his kids. Kinda creepy.

[ODDJOB UNO]

Originally Posted by chocolatelab

Ask wesley snipes about taxes and the constitution. I think he takes visitors on tuesdays and fridays.

In case this ends up in IRS world for the record, i love paying taxes and try to over pay every year

i love paying taxes also and i try and over pay every year also. and i make damn sure they are on time, so as not to stretch their checkbook out and stress them out.


i also donate all of my old clothing/appliances that are still useable, and all of my monthly spare change to the navajo school for obese girls, so they can afford a new treadmill.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by chocolatelab

Ask wesley snipes about taxes and the constitution. I think he takes visitors on tuesdays and fridays.

In case this ends up in IRS world for the record, i love paying taxes and try to over pay every year

Wesley Snipes claimed he was exempt from paying US taxes. That's irrelevant to this thread.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by legion

Due process doesn't seem to apply to traffic infractions or taxes.

those are violations no criminal penalty so not much process is due you


Rick - they can do a LOT of very unhappy things re civil "penalties" before getting to a criminal indictment

I'm not sure what exactly, but they can definitely grab your car, m/c, and probably your house.

I AM sure they cannot take away your Black Lung benefits... those are as close to sacrosanct as anything.

[nynor]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

So the IRS can seize your assets when there's no court order or even charge of underpayment? I find that hard to believe. And banks comply with this?

yep. your disbelief matters not. yep.

think "treasury" and "bank" at the same time as "IRS".

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

So the IRS can seize your assets when there's no court order or even charge of underpayment? I find that hard to believe. And banks comply with this?

you think a BANK is going to do what you want instead of rolling over for the IRS

and, yes, many agencies, not just the IRS can operate in "adjudication" mode and act to some extent like a court; you will get to try and have a real live federal judge over rule them later on - and BTW he will just LOVE having some guy in his court room adding to his case load!