Engine technology and MPG

[fanaudical]

My '92 Audi 100 used to routinely get 30-32 mpg cruising at ~65mph on the highway - until E10 came to play. Now I'm lucky to get 25-27mpg.

[mattdavis11]

I like how Toyota is advertising a Prius getting 45mpg. It makes me laugh, I don't think either one of the two in the fleet get 45, I know the 07 I drive gets around 37 on good day, on the highway, driving down wind. However it has 150K and a clogged cat, at least that's the code it throws.

I'm not impressed.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by mattdavis11

I like how Toyota is advertising a Prius getting 45mpg. It makes me laugh, I don't think either one of the two in the fleet get 45, I know the 07 I drive gets around 37 on good day, on the highway, driving down wind. However it has 150K and a clogged cat, at least that's the code it throws.

I'm not impressed.

I think they get higher mpg around town, when the battery and electric motor are in effect. They aren't really hybrids on the highway.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by fanaudical

My '92 Audi 100 used to routinely get 30-32 mpg cruising at ~65mph on the highway - until E10 came to play. Now I'm lucky to get 25-27mpg.

I am a firm believer that E10 is really E10/W10/G80. The only way that mileage should drop off is if there is water there.

[john70t]

25, 30, 45 mpg?......bah, whatever.
The only "true" hybrid daily driver on the market today is the Honda Insight: 70+mpg when driven considerately. That is more than double the milage of a 2011 Subaru, the same rating as 15 years ago.

The Insight chassis and interior is based somewhat identically on the Toyota Prius, but the powerplant is considerably superior.




All of this "recent debate" pales in comparison with the world cars designed decades ago.

When you learn more about the history, the more it all seems comical.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by red-beard

I am a firm believer that E10 is really E10/W10/G80. The only way that mileage should drop off is if there is water there.

Can ethanol and water co-exist in the same liquid?

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by john70t

25, 30, 45 mpg?......bah, whatever.
The only "true" hybrid daily driver on the market today is the Honda Insight: 70+mpg when driven considerately. That is more than double the milage of a 2011 Subaru, the same rating as 15 years ago.

The Insight chassis and interior is based somewhat identically on the Toyota Prius, but the powerplant is considerably superior.
.

WTF do you smoke?

[porsche4life]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Can ethanol and water co-exist in the same liquid?

The ethanol is what allows the water to be added and still be burned. The H2O and EToH bond. The water is burned off with the etoh and goes unnoticed...

[Tim Walsh]

To answer the previous question, when it came time to buy a "new" car, what did I end up with? An unmolested 91 CRX Si. An honest 40MPG(@65-70MPH) and fun as heck to drive. The only issue is, it's a tin can, the only safety features are seat belts, acres of glass, and an active mind behind the wheel. There's no way in hell it would pass any federal standards 20 years later.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by kaisen

WTF do you smoke?

I try not to intake unknown and unwanted substances. Period.
But if I was to willingly inhale a known substance into my lungs, it would be within the framework of the constitutional fathers or common sense.


The CAFE standards the OP mentioned, and of which I spoke of before,..ummm...speaks for themselves.

25mpg.
Same as the Model T.

[kaisen]

So without the, ahem, enhancement of such substances....

Please enlighten us and elaborate on how a 2011 Honda Insight is 'considerably superior' to a 2011 Toyota Prius

[944Larry]

I had a new Opel GT in '73, I think. Seems like it got up in the over 30 mpg range.

[john70t]

The federal standards which require airbags and abs and traction-control directly contribute to the weight and milage of new vehichles.

This is all in relation to corporate insurance statistics in relation to the 7,500lbs vehicles, currently registered as "cars", which are now on the road.

[pksystems]

I've been thinking about this......

get an old beetle (pre all this overweight safety shat) take the body off, turn it into a small ultralight dune buggy thing styled like an Ariel Atom, and put in a small diesel engine.

Summer use only high mpg DD. Unfortunately, I don't think Canada will see summer again, it's still snowing.

Run it off vegetable oil from Costco when diesel goes above $1.40cdn (I checked yesterday)

The laws for modified cars in Canada are so ridiculous, you need to start with something pre safety/mileage/emissions.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by kaisen

So without the, ahem, enhancement of such substances....
Please enlighten us and elaborate on how a 2011 Honda Insight is 'considerably superior' to a 2011 Toyota Prius

Yes, Kaisen.
Now that I've officially declared myself decades free off marijuanna, aka the demon drug, we can now begin to discuss the federal CAFE standards of millions of American vehicles on the road daily.

A more important and relavent comparison is the CAFE milage standards to those 20 years ago....
I beleive that was the intent of the original post.

[john70t]

The federal requirements are biased towards larger, faster, more expensive vehicles.

Everyone else pays more, in one form or another.

Federal subsidy.(sp)

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by john70t

Yes, Kaisen.
Now that I've officially declared myself decades free off marijuanna, aka the demon drug, we can now begin to discuss the federal CAFE standards of millions of American vehicles on the road daily.

A more important and relavent comparison is the CAFE milage standards to those 20 years ago....
I beleive that was the intent of the original post.

I'm much more interested to how an Insight is superior to a Prius, given that it runs counter to just about everyone else's opinion.

That's why they're called 'threads'

[john70t]

Kaisen, you want to know why CAFE standards haven't improved in 100 years?

I'm sorry.
I can't be of help there.

[kaisen]

However, let's also discuss CAFE and what it stands for: Corporate Average Fuel Economy

Anything under 8,600 pounds gross vehicle weight falls under the average.
Ten years ago, twenty years ago, there weren't as many 'large' vehicles sold. Yet manufacturers STILL found ways to meet the CAFE standards.
So even a 1/2 ton pickup that will be used to tow and haul is calculated in the average. They get considerably better fuel economy today than they did ten or twenty years ago. And since more of them are sold than hyper-mile economy cars, MORE fuel is saved in the SUV/CUV/Truck segments than will ever be saved by an Insight or Prius or Jetta TDI

[nynor]

gasoline to mechanical energy = 30% efficiency (someone will probably correct me), in an internal combustion engine. this isn't going to change. the rest is lost as heat, hence the relatively large radiator and coolant reservoir.

bmw was (is?) trying to do something with this heat by using it to create HP via steam. it looked VERY complicated to me.

edit: i was optimistic, it seems: 15%

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv.shtml