Since you're not from the US, I'll go easy on you here. Word to the wise - if you get out of your car first in a road rage incident, YOU are guilty of whatever crime they can pin on your afterward. If you EVER have a gun in your hand in public (doubly so in the middle of a busy street), a crime has been committed; you're either brandishing or someone is threatening/assaulting you, thereby requiring you to draw your gun. Either way, felony charges will be filed on someone. Again, anytime a non-LEO's gun comes out of its holster in public, a crime has been committed.

I don't know how it works in other countries. But just about everywhere in the US and certainly in AZ, if you get out of your car first in a road rage incident with a gun in your hand, the other guy is legally justified in killing you - not shooting to wound, not defensively displaying and giving a verbal warning - legally justified in killing you, even if he has to throw the car in reverse and run over you. Don't do it. You will almost certainly be shot in states where lots of folks carry guns. In fact, don't even try getting out of your car when unarmed and especially when pulled over by the police. That's how it works here and everyone knows it. That this dead dumbass did it (I heard he was a retired sheriff's deputy), means he knew the law, ignored it and had very bad intentions.

I agree with all of the activity that occurred in that road rage shooting; all of it. The man rightfully defended himself with deadly force, period, no questions asked in my mind.

However, what I wonder about regarding the details, is: were these guys sitting in traffic when the one driver approached the other? Did they both "pull over" to "talk". At what point does "accepting the challenge to a confrontation" become more than defending yourself? Again, I agree with what this guy did given the circumstances, but it makes me wonder what led up to this. Who "started" it? Does it matter? I can't help but think that if they both hadn't pulled over, that this whole incident might have been avoided. Then again, it may not have been avoided. One of the guys could have followed the other one home, or, or, or etc....

I lived in Colorado when the "watershed" road rage event involving Vern Smalley occurred. It think it was the same scenario, although I don't think the aggressor had a gun. I believe he was striking Smalley through the driver's window when he caught .44 caliber lead poisoning. In that case, I believe they both "pulled over", which makes me wonder why Mr. Smalley pulled over in the first place if he was being harassed. In the end, I believe Mr. Smalley was not charged, but I can't remember all the details off the top of my head.

JA

I had some raging nutbag go crazy on me on SR 93 between Kingman and Hoover Dam a few mos. ago. I had been following him for a good 150 miles and he was driving plenty fast, so I felt no need to pass him. Then, all of a sudden, he stays in the left lane parallel to the car in the right lane at a speed much lower than what he had been doing the previous two hours. I had a detector and there was no radar in the area. Every time the right car sped up or slowed down, this nutbag stayed parallel with him so I couldn't pass. When this got to 10mph below the speed limit, I finally flashed my headlights at the guy. He immediately started brake checking me, giving me the finger, just freaking out. Blinded by rage, he didn't notice the right car speed ahead, so I passed on the right. He kept motioning for me to pull over, tried to run me off the road, just nuts. I was armed, but he must have thought I was not, as no one in AZ is that stupid and I was in a rental car with CT plates. I held my iPhone up the window and called DPS, reported the guy, his make, model, plate number and mile marker. He dropped back then.

Now, had that happened in a place with a upcoming traffic lights, I really wonder what he would have done at a red light. The guy was just uncontrollably irate and I had done nothing beside flashing my lights when he was blocking the left lane below the speed limit. But it doesn't matter who did what. The first person to get out of their car LOSES legally. That's all there is to it.

f-that. If I had to live life worried about where I sit in a restaurant or whatever because of the fear that some a-hole is going to go off, I'd friggin' move. Life is to short to be worrying about that sh$t.
That's kinda bordering on an anxiety disorder. Do you feel venerable if you are sitting with your back to the door? Just wondering is all. I just sit my arse down anywhere and enjoy the food and company, not worried about who and what is walking through the door. My biggest concern is, is the effin' kitchen clean!! Again, you do come from a more violent society than I, but still....I'd hate to live like that.
I am under no illusions as to what can and does happen, but to have to be constantly vigilant...f that. And I do not mean anything I have written to be disparaging to anyone. My life in little old Adelaide seems very easy compared to you guys.

I don't worry at all. It's called situational awareness. Really, I sleep very well at night, don't worry by day and am usually very easy going. Try riding a motorcycle as your main mode of transportation and you learn to grow eyes in the back of your head. When I die, I want it to be totally unavoidable, not something that could have been prevented by paying attention or taking a few extra precautions. And to think I was agonizing over the price of replacing all my smoke detectors last week. I spent the money and the installs took me about 30 min. Having had my life saved by a smoke detector about five years ago should have made that a no-brainer, but it did take me a few minutes to make the decision this time.

Seeing that it are the wolves you need to protect yourself from, don't you mean you are a shepherd?? :) (I know, being a wolf sounds way cooler... :p)

So what are you saying that I as a tourist to be, should find me a gun, for the three weeks I'm roaming the Eastcoast?...

No, just go and have fun, nothing's going to happen. More chance of a car accident.

That was what I would planning to. :) And I will drive safely. :)

I probably don't care about the sheep enough to be a shepherd.

When you feel it is a good thing to apprehend criminals as a civilian, I would say that makes you a shepherd, a wolf would have let that guy run. ;) (don't deny it snipe, there is some good in you ;)) Let's call it a shepherd in wolf's camouflage...

You already do, you're just too naive to realize it.

There have been mass murders in Australia, yes? Robberies, muggings, stabbings, rapes, murders...right? People have been killed or seriously maimed by all manner of wildlife there, right?

Answer to all: Yes.

You are not safe.

If you think you are, good for you, but you're not. "Can't happen to me" is not going to defend you if it ever does.

I was just thinking about the contradiction you mentioned here yourself.

I guess I do have some good guy left in me after all... (a grudging admission)

Would you like me to do a quick google and find a couple dozen stories of tourists getting kidnapped, raped, tortured or murdered in the United States?

Or should we just let Geronimo utilize the "can't happen to me" defensive technique like you do?

Will you need a weapon? Probably not.

MIGHT you need a weapon? Very possibly.

IF you need a weapon and you don't have one, will you be well and truly fuched?

Yep.

Ripped from google (this is quite old, but it's the first thing i saw, and it's not exactly like the US is any safer...):

"Murders of eight foreign visitors to Florida within the past year have negatively impacted summer tourism state-wide although most of the robbery-related crimes occurred in Miami. The most recent murder occurred Sep. 8, when a sniper in a van shot and killed a German tourist, who was driving on Miami's Dolphin

Expressway."http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3190/is_n37_v27/ai_14418349/

Clearly, there is no threat if 8 foreign tourists were murdered in one US state alone.

Here's a story from my city, very recent (oct 2010):

The 15th annual Crime Prevention Award winners are:

• Officer Joseph Davis of the Philadelphia Police Department, who, while off-duty, chased down one of a trio of suspects who had just robbed a group of European tourists (at gunpoint).

Posted: 08/18/10 at 5:50 am EDT

NORTHEAST MIAMI-DADE, Fla. (WSVN) -- Police are on a manhunt for a gunman who robbed and roughed up some tourists before taking off in their rental car.

The tourists, who, Miami-Dade Police said, were visiting from Italy, has stopped to use a restroom at a recording studio located in an industrial area, at 18909 NE 5th Ave. As they exited the studio, just after 2 p.m. Tuesday, the armed attacker approached them on foot.

Detectives could be seen interviewing a distraught man on the scene. Meanwhile, Miami-Dade Fire Rescue transported another man to the hospital after he was roughed up by the assailant. "We were able to learn that one male subject approached him with a firearm, pistol whipped the victim and took his vehicle," explained Miami-Dade Police Detective Javier Baez.

The victim is expected to be OK.

According to a witness who works at the recording studio, the pair were robbed right outside the studios' doors. "He got robbed for everything he got," said Andre Morgan. "That's crazy. I don't know how it happened, I got here late, but that's really rude, and that's not good."

The subject drove off in the tourists' rental vehicle, a white Ford Mustang.

The suspect is described as a black male in his 30s, standing about 6 feet tall with a beard. He was last seen wearing a black shirt and silver shorts.

If you have any information on this robbery and carjacking, call Miami-Dade Crime Stoppers at 305-471-TIPS. Remember, you can always remain anonymous, and you may be eligible for a reward.

(Copyright 2010 by Sunbeam Television Corp. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.)

-----------

Clearly, there's no threat.

CARJACKING: The criminal taking of a motor vehicle from its driver by force, violence, or intimidation.

The U.S. JUSTICE DEPARTMENT categorizes the crime of carjacking as a "completed or attempted ROBBERY of a motor vehicle by a stranger to a victim." Carjacking incidents emerged in increasing numbers in the 1980s and 1990s, after their initial appearances in Detroit. According to a report filed with the Bureau of Justice Statistics in 1999, an average of 49,000 carjackings occurred in the United States each year between 1992 and 1996. During this time, about half of all attempted carjackings were successful, though the most carjackings (84 percent) did not result in injuries to the victims.

Carjackers are often thought by the public to target older persons, women, and tourists—groups of conspicuous vulnerability. However, statistics from 1992 to 1996 show that individuals between the ages of 25 and 49 were more likely to be the victims of such a crime (3.6 out of every 10,000 persons) than individuals ages 50 or older (0.9 out of every 10,000 persons). Moreover, males during this time span were more likely to be victims (3.1 out of every 10,000 persons) than females (1.9 out of every 10,000 persons).

The makes and models of the cars targeted for carjacking vary from city to city, and it is not

only the expensive, top-of-the-line cars that are taken but also older and less pricey automobiles. This may be because carjackings are more crimes of opportunity than of premeditation. Carjackers simply wait for an unaware driver, an open window, or an unlocked door. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics report in 1999, persons with an average annual income of between $35,000 and $49,999 were more likely to be victims (3.2 out of every 10,000) than those who made $50,000 or more per year (2.4 out of every 10,000).

Carjacking was formally introduced to Congress during its spring 1992 session by Representative Charles E. Schumer (D-NY). Over the next several months, a new law involving the crime was discussed and developed into the Anti-Car Theft Act of 1992 (18 U.S.C.A. § 2119). The focus was not entirely on carjacking, but rather on car theft, which had become the number one property crime in the United States, with automobiles constituting more than 50 percent of the property U.S. citizens lost to theft.

Read more: Carjacking - Further Readings - Crime, Statute, Tourists, Victims, Persons, and Firearm Carjacking - Further Readings - Crime, Statute, Tourists, Victims, Persons, and Firearm

Honestly, I could post reams of information about just how not safe the US is.

I'm not naive, I'm just not paranoid like you. I don't live my life based on the fact that I might get mugged, bashed or maimed in a restaurant shooting.

Well it can't be that bad as you have millions of tourists every year, so the percentage of crime against those millions is very, very low.

I have traveled through some parts of Asia and a lot of Europe including the U.K and have never needed or felt I needed a weapon. You need to get out more. The world is not as bad as you think. Would I carry a gun if I could?, not sure. Would I take on an armed robber in a store if all he is doing is robbing the place, no. To pull a gun would/could start a gunfight and innocent people could be killed just because I wanted to be a hero.

The U.S is safe. Like all parts of the world there are parts that you don't venture to. Most travelers do their homework before they go.

I'll assume you are being serious (may be going out on a limb with that).
The individual states regulate firearms. So every state you go into will have different laws. You would need to learn to handle a firearm first. It's easy, but there are serious dos and don'ts. Then, and most important, is that you learn the rules for each state you are going to be in. In these days of extreme fear over terrorists, a foreigner improperly possessing a firearm in the US could find himself in prison for a lonnnngggg time.
Understand that this board is not representative of Americans. Most of Americans don't ever carry a weapon and we get along just fine.

Most Americans don't either. We have the right to do so, and people who do it have their reasons, but keep in mind this message board is not representative of typical Americans. By far the greatest majority of us do not go around in fear for our lives if we aren't armed and we sit wherever we want in restaurants. Most of us go about our daily lives without guns and without fear.

I was kinda serious and not. I'm really not planning on carrying a gun. I would be surprised if it was legal for tourists to carry one anyway, and even then I would not carry. (not properly trained)

I do plan to shoot some when I visit a friend, but that's another matter.

If one reads in this thread how dangerous it is in the US according to some of you, one could think that a gun is just mandatory while I am sure it is not.

Some of the guys here deem it so necessary to carry all the time that I wonder whether even fellow gun owners don't consider them as paranoid.

That being said, I like guns too, might even consider owning one or two, for fun, not because I feel the need to be prepared.

My sister lives in Denver and I plan on visiting her later this year... And honestly if I could carry I would. (I won't be)

Why? A lot of bad guys in the US carry and I wouldn't want to run into one without the ability to defend myself adequately.

I understand that. Have a few American friends here. I think to go around armed all the time as Sniper does makes one a victim of fear. He will claim it's not fear, that's it's preparedness, but why be prepared for something you do not fear?

'Fear is a distressing negative emotion induced by a perceived threat'