Best place to advertise a Stearman?

artplumber · 03-31-2011, 09:18 PM

Met a great guy tonight. Has had many planes. In fact, bought them by the pound at one time. P51's for $700/each! Has had 15 warbirds at one time or another. Landed a B25B in a field when one of his engines let go on the ferry flight back from FL. Gotten rid of most of the planes after Cali passed yearly tax on value of them. Still has a Stearman with a big engine and he is getting too old to fly. Where should he advertise?

TIA

varmint · 03-31-2011, 09:28 PM

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/

Normy · 03-31-2011, 09:33 PM

Trade-A-Plane.

Otherwise...tell him to try a broker. Most used plane brokers deal with corporate jets and King-Airs', but something like a Stearman would appeal to a rich guy who already has a jet, since it is essentially a winged Harley-Davidson.

N

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

TAP isn't bad, nor is AOPA's classifieds. The market for piston aircraft is kind of dicey right now - there's a lot of uncertainty out there over the impending ban of 100LL fuel by the EPA. There really isn't a viable alternative and any new formulation has the potential to create real headaches for aircraft owners (engine recertifications, extensive Airworthiness Directives to ensure any new fuel blend is compatible with bladders, seals, pumps, lines, etc. Possibly new performance charts and/or power setting tables and operating limitations... You get the idea - this is making a holy hell of a mess of the light GA market right now... I'm sure you can read up on it.

Point is, if you're willing to take a gamble that the ban/phase-out of avgas won't happen there are some awfully good deals on airplanes right now. OTOH you could be buying a boat anchor if the ban goes ahead and you're unwilling or unable to cough up the many thousands it might take to bring your a/c into compliance... Obviously because of this (and a limited pool of potential buyers to begin with because of the economy and fuel prices) it's a tough time to be selling.

Best of luck! Stearmans are awesome - I'd love to pick one up someday (or a Citabria)...

Normy · 03-31-2011, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

TAP isn't bad, nor is AOPA's classifieds. The market for piston aircraft is kind of dicey right now - there's a lot of uncertainty out there over the impending ban of 100LL fuel by the EPA. There really isn't a viable alternative and any new formulation has the potential to create real headaches for aircraft owners (engine recertifications, extensive Airworthiness Directives to ensure any new fuel blend is compatible with bladders, seals, pumps, lines, etc. Possibly new performance charts and/or power setting tables and operating limitations... You get the idea - this is making a holy hell of a mess of the light GA market right now... I'm sure you can read up on it.

Point is, if you're willing to take a gamble that the ban/phase-out of avgas won't happen there are some awfully good deals on airplanes right now. OTOH you could be buying a boat anchor if the ban goes ahead and you're unwilling or unable to cough up the many thousands it might take to bring your a/c into compliance... Obviously because of this (and a limited pool of potential buyers to begin with because of the economy and fuel prices) it's a tough time to be selling.

Best of luck! Stearmans are awesome - I'd love to pick one up someday (or a Citabria)...

Are you sure? Listen, I haven't done any research on this, but most old cars that ran on leaded gas in the 1960's have been modified to have hardened valve seats. My understanding is that this is the biggest problem with unleaded gasoline. There are also additives that can be added to aviation gasoline that can help with the problems of upper cylinder lubrication. I know the R-680 engine that powers this airplane is fairly rare, but there must be a market for valve seats! Any good machine shop can make these.

I suspect that the owners of these planes...and GA owners in general are fighting this because they don't want to replace the valve seats in the whole GA fleet. Or take the performance penalty that a mo-gas STC will cause. It is a situation where they say they "CANNOT" when the reality is that they can, but they "DO NOT" want to pay for the change.

-At the same time, frankly, the small effect that the elimination of 100LL has on the environment seems to me to be a ridiculous change. This is not reasonable, and if government wants this to take place, then they should fund the development of 100UL engines, and put money aside so that parts for common older engines can be developed.

N

sc_rufctr · 10:23 PM

I always liked these. What sort of money is a good one worth?

EDIT: I built a model of one when I was a kid. I remember the aero landing gear especially. Cool Plane!

James Brown · James Brown's Garage

Try barnstormers.com

dar636 · dar636's Garage

Barnstormers.com, Controller.com, ASO.com. Pictures are a must for the ad. The values are 85-120K, lots of variables but good aircraft are selling right now.

I rebuilt one (A75N1) in 1994 and sold it to buy land.

Good luck to your friend, Skywagon pilot.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

Don't mean to thread hijack but I think it's necessary to bring the fuel issue into the discussion since it directly affects the market for light GA aircraft (and their sales). It is extremely difficult to refine to 100 octane without lead. The presumption is that it will be done with ethanol, which needless to say has pilots and airplane owners freaking out (since ethanol is corrosive to rubber fuel system components, absorbs water, etc). Yes the valve seats are part of the problem because of the removal of lead, bit it's only part of the story. Any ethanol-based avgas will create a slew of problems (it generates fewer BTU/h per gallon and it's heavier, which is never good in airplanes, in addition to the corrosion issues).

I'll stop here before getting on a rant, but suffice to say the market for piston airplanes is going to be pretty messed up until this issue gets hashed out - and given the current regime it's anybody's guess whether an eventual decision will incorporate any sort of sound logic or whether Orville and Wilber's invention will be sacrificed on the altar of the "green energy" myth, along with the jobs of hundreds of thousands of people connected to light GA... Yes, it really could end up being that significant of an impact.

Joeaksa · 04-01-2011, 04:43 AM

You can tell who has sold a plane recently and who has not.

TAP used to be the best place but that was years ago. Barnstormers is by far the best these days. Airplanes & Aircraft Parts For Sale - Free Classified Ads - Ultralights to Airliners - Used Aircraft and Helicopter Sales and Classifieds including Cessna, Beechcraft, Piper, de Havilland, Boeing, Airbus and Lockheed planes is by far the best place to sell something like this these days.

cashflyer · 05:26 AM

+1 for Barnstormers.

I rarely ever go to TAP any more.... things move faster on Barnstormers.
And TAP has become more troublesome to navigate since they changed the format a few months ago.

And photos are a MUST.
Many people don't even spend time with the ads that don't have photos. Why? Because a photo allows them to picture themselves in it, or picture it in their hangar. It allows them to get attached to it. (And because America is home of ADD and instant gratification.)

Price of a flying Stearman? $80,000 and up, per a quick search on Barnstormers.

304065 · 04-01-2011, 05:36 AM

Half the airplanes down at sun n fun this year. . . $6/gal 100LL has something to do with it
Nothing like taking it to a show where people can see it in person

Mark Hjelm · 04-01-2011, 05:38 AM

This is my buddie, Mike's Stearman. It's a blast to fly... I haven't heard about the fuel changes.... when will it end......

romad · romad's Garage

CA taxes value...WOW why does anyone live in California?

James Brown · James Brown's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Don't mean to thread hijack but I think it's necessary to bring the fuel issue into the discussion since it directly affects the market for light GA aircraft (and their sales). It is extremely difficult to refine to 100 octane without lead. The presumption is that it will be done with ethanol, which needless to say has pilots and airplane owners freaking out (since ethanol is corrosive to rubber fuel system components, absorbs water, etc). Yes the valve seats are part of the problem because of the removal of lead, bit it's only part of the story. Any ethanol-based avgas will create a slew of problems (it generates fewer BTU/h per gallon and it's heavier, which is never good in airplanes, in addition to the corrosion issues).

I'll stop here before getting on a rant, but suffice to say the market for piston airplanes is going to be pretty messed up until this issue gets hashed out - and given the current regime it's anybody's guess whether an eventual decision will incorporate any sort of sound logic or whether Orville and Wilber's invention will be sacrificed on the altar of the "green energy" myth, along with the jobs of hundreds of thousands of people connected to light GA... Yes, it really could end up being that significant of an impact.

There is an AD issued by the FAA this year forbidding ethanol fuel in ANY aircraft, even experimental. the lead content in 100LL will continue for quite some time. No real solution in sight now as the FAA thinks the change to running unleaded in just about every general aircraft is financially impractical at this time. But things can change with changes in the white house.

944Larry · 944Larry's Garage

A point of contact is Pete Jones at Air Repair in Cleveland MS. He used to rebuild Stearmans and has a world of parts for them. He's been doing Cessna Bird Dogs for a while now.

sc_rufctr · 04-01-2011, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Brown

There is an AD issued by the FAA this year forbidding ethanol fuel in ANY aircraft, even experimental. the lead content in 100LL will continue for quite some time. No real solution in sight now as the FAA thinks the change to running unleaded in just about every general aircraft is financially impractical at this time. But things can change with changes in the white house.

Recently I saw a documentary that claimed the US Navy was going to Bio fuel for all of its fuel needs.

I have to ask what's the point??? Considering the risks and inefficiencies to their aircraft.
I suspect it's just Green propaganda.

James Brown · James Brown's Garage

The Navy is a "all jet fleet" you can burn anything in them, even jack Daniels, but they don't

sc_rufctr · 04-01-2011, 10:36 PM

True about the Jets but what about replacing the diesel in the ships or other small craft?

dar636 · dar636's Garage

The weather has been a bigger impact than fuel on the Sun and Fun crowd over the last few years. You would have to fly through all of this to get there today:

NOAA's National Weather Service