What Is This Spoon And It's Value

[tabs]

Sometimes when one is looking through lists of spoon auction items one is not given very much information nor very clear pictures of what it is. That is where knowledge and having research material available is important. It is at this time that items tend to fall through the cracks at auctions. Most people don't take the time to figure it out.

On the following item it was listed as an:" LC Smith 12 GA Shotgun with 1886 and 1895 patent dates engraved."..thats it.

So the question is exactly what model of LC Smith spoon is this and what is its relative value. If one cares to take the time it can be figured out. So BOyz have at it and tell me what it is and what it is worth?


BTW: This is really one for the TARGA man...

[fred cook]

Grade 3 w/fluid steel barrels. Made between 1895 and 1912. Looks clean but much used. Probably in the $3500 - $5000 range.

[fred cook]

The oval egraving on the side of the receiver indicates grade 3. Would like to see a better picture of the leather wrap on the barrels. That could hurt the price some.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by fred cook

Grade 3 w/fluid steel barrels. Made between 1895 and 1912. Looks clean but much used. Probably in the $3500 - $5000 range.

My My U are GOOD...and close but not quite..Nitro Barrels, Single Trigger , original bluing and healthy case hardening remains, Barrel release lever is to the right which indicates that the gun is still tight (LC's don't usually shoot loose), with the leather Butt Pad it would be apparent that the stock wasn't modified to fit a Pad.

Bores are shiny and bright wt no dings, no cracks in stock especially behind the locks as it is where LC's love to crack, by SN it was made in 06 and it does have Auto Ejectors(from a call) Auctioneer was not knowlegable about spoons so he was not of much help other than giving a description of condition.

To be nutz on you need to check the engraving pattern on the top of the frame, the bottom of the Receiver and Trigger guard..that is where this story will be told.

It took me a little less than 1/2 an hour to figure it out. I went to the Brophy and Hochines books on LC's. Then when you figure the model you can figure the value...

On this Spoon 3 shotgun buying dealers were competing...I figure 2 really didn't bother to do their homework. One of the 2 beat me out on a Win Mdl 12 Black Diamond C 1944 at $1225.00 out de door...that gun had professionalyrefreshed wood (English style Straight Grip wt factory solid rib)) and some reasonable wear (still tight) on the bluing...would have been a nice Trap Gun for the range..with just enough patina and wear to make it real nice. Could have lied and told evryone it was Dad's gun...

Anyway I digress...this LC does have some blue wear and thinning on the barrels. I figure that for being 105 years old that isn't so bad..and it is still ORIGINAL BLUING with no monkey business. The question is HOW MUCH BLUE wear is ther under the leather wrap? From talking to the aucitoneer it basically is from the family of the original owner so this is a fresh one to the market.

BTW..I don't think it was used all that much..

[fred cook]

Tabs,

Looks like you have found a very nice piece. If I remember correctly, there were only two choices for barrels on grade 3s. One was damascus and the other fluid steel (also known as nitro). I think that the single trigger was an option as were the ejectors. If it was a 20 ga. I would fight you for it! Good luck on your bidding.

[tabs]

Not Grade 3....

[tabs]

Figure Nitro Barrels, SST. AE, original blue wt nice case, nice wood without being cut for a Pad and being a 06 Elsie...Figure the grade and No. made in that Grade and what do you have...

Figure at least 1/2 are Damacus Barrels, add in the few with SST's and this one not being Monkeyed with..

BTW SST & AE were options..most in this grade did have AE's so one has to add $$$$$ because of those options, especially the SST

[fred cook]

How are the barrels choked?

[tabs]

Originally Posted by fred cook

How are the barrels choked?

I don't know, the Auctioneer is not a Spoon person..on this one it doesn't matter in determining the Grade..it is all in the engraving pattern..

and if this were a 20 GA... let us just put it this way there were less built in 20 GA in this Grade than the Gauge #. So my guess would be that if this were a 20 there wouldn't be a Elsie guy alive who would not be after this one.

[fred cook]

If I remember correctly, there were grades 00, 0 , 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, Pidgeon, A1 and A2 between 1895 and 1912. From the fact that it is engraved, it is not an OO, O or 1. The Grade 2 engraving was a circle on the sideplate, the Pidgeon grade was a pattern without a circle or oval and starting with grade 4 the oval was larger, taking up almost all of the sideplate. I am not in any sense an expert on LC Smith shotguns, but you will have to tell me why you think it is other than a grade 3 gun.

[targa911S]

Looks like a crown grade. Pretty rare even in a big bore. I'll ball park it at around 10K.

[romad]

Spoon, really you are calling this shotgun a spoon. enough is enough with this one.

[fred cook]

Can't be a Crown grade. They were made in and after 1945. Tabs says this one was manufactured in 1906. I'm hanging with Grade 3.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by fred cook

If I remember correctly, there were grades 00, 0 , 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, Pidgeon, A1 and A2 between 1895 and 1912. From the fact that it is engraved, it is not an OO, O or 1. The Grade 2 engraving was a circle on the sideplate, the Pidgeon grade was a pattern without a circle or oval and starting with grade 4 the oval was larger, taking up almost all of the sideplate. I am not in any sense an expert on LC Smith shotguns, but you will have to tell me why you think it is other than a grade 3 gun.

Grade 4......I have matched the engraving pattern, in two books. Total of 455 were bilt in this Mdl, with 388 being 12 GA spoons. Only 15 were 20 GA. This is rarer than the Grade 5 and A1's..the Monogram is rarer in this earlier period mdl.

Currently there are only 2 ads for a Grade 4, both with Nitro barrels, 12GA and with dbl triggers

1. Guns America..$10,500 or reasonable BO..private party, has been in family since new..maybe a little lessor condition.

2. Guns International..$20,000..High end shotgun dealer by the name of Kevin James in GA. nicer spoon than this one.

Julias several years back had a 10 GA with Damacus Barrels RESTORED that went for $6500. Saw another RESTORED 12GA Damascus B one go for $3420. can't remember the auction..

[MRM]

The preferred nomenclature is "shotspoon" but Herr Tabdulah is the final arbiter of wealth and taste so he may call it what he pleases.

David, how can you tell it's a crown grade? That is one fine firearm, um, spoon.

[tabs]

Elsie didn't do a Grade 6 or 7...

00,0,1,2,3,Pigeon,4,A1,5,Monogram,A2,A3...

After 1912 the line up changed to: Field, Ideal, Trap, Speciality, Eagle, Crown and Monogram.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by fred cook

Can't be a Crown grade. They were made from 1913 to 1945. Tabs says this one was manufactured in 1906. I'm hanging with Grade 3.

Fixed it for ya.

[tabs]

Now that we have the complete info what is this ones appraised value from the concensus board..

[Jandrews]

Tabs, you have a PM.

JA

[fred cook]

Here are a couple of better pictures of the Grade 3 and Grade 4 sideplates. The Grade 3 looks to me to be closer to the ones in Tabs pictures.


Grade 3


Grade 4