What makes a luxury car anyway?

[kaisen]

What makes a luxury marque 'luxury'?

I'm not talking about Bentleys or Maseratis. I'm talking about BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, Infiniti, Volvo, Saab, Lincoln, Cadillac, etc. So maybe more mid-luxury, depending on your view of the market.

Here's what got me thinking (and talking). An auto journalist friend of mine recently had a Hyundai Sonata 2.0T Limited as a press car. The next week he had a Mercedes-Benz E350.

As different as they seem, they have much more in common than you'd think. They are both almost the exact same size in most dimensions, none clearly larger or smaller than the other. They make about the same horsepower, E350 268, Sonata 274, both at 6000rpm. Both make similar torque with the Hyundai more 269@1750 and the E350 less 258@2400. Transmissions are similar, 6 for he Hyundai, 7 speeds for the E350. The Hyundai is front-drive, where the Benz is rear. The Benz is the heaviest at 3850, versus Hyundai's 3450. 0-60 times are similar ~6.5 secs, with the Hyundai being just a few tenths quicker. Fuel economy is 17 city / 24 freeway for the Benz, 22 city / 33 freeway for the Hyundai.

Similarly equipped means heated seats, moonroof, Bluetooth, touchscreen Nav with back-up camera, etc.

A 2011 E350 with Premium Pkg 1, metallic paint, split-folding rear seat, and rear side airbags would be $55,855.
A 2011 Hyundai Sonata 2.0T Limited with Navigation would be $29,995.

At that price, the Mercedes does NOT have real leather, it would be an additional $1,620 option. The Hyundai does NOT have memory for the driver's seat, power steering column, or power headrests. Althought the Mercedes does not have heated rear seats or keyless-go (pushbutton start or proximity key) at that price where the Hyundai does. The Hyundai also does not have wood. But feature for feature, they're pretty close otherwise.

Hyundai's warranty is 5 years or 60,000 miles, bumper to bumper, and 10 years or 100,000 miles powertrain, with 5 years unlimited roadside assistance.
Mercedes' warranty is 4 years or 50,000 miles bumper to bumper and powertrain and roadside assistance.

The Hyundai's paint quality was every bit the quality of the Mercedes, maybe better. The interior trim of the Mercedes was nicer, but the touch-points were equal. The measured and subjective sound attenuation of the two cars was similar, with the Hyundai being slightly quieter for wind and road noise, and the Mercedes being quieter for engine noise.

It sounds blasphemous to compare a Hyundai to a Mercedes. But why? They're not that different when you take your pre-conceptions about brand away from the comparison. Save $25K, pick up 6-7 mpg, and get a better warranty.

If push came to shove, Hyundai's own Genesis 3.8 with a Premium package would 'beat' the Mercedes in every appreciable quantifiable measure (dimensions, power, fuel economy, features) for $39,000.... still $16K less than the Benz.

But again, what is luxury? Why are we willing to pay the extra money? What is the difference?

[gprsh924]

Eric this is a great question. A lot of it comes down to feel. I bought an 02 530i about 6 months ago. At the time I test drove a lot of cars, and the Mazda 6 (06) was a very interesting competitor. It stacked up about the same as the two cars in your example above. There were a number of factors in my decision but in the end I decided on the older car with more miles for slightly less money. It was all about feel. The rwd feels better. The leather was nicer. The interior looked better. The styling was better. At the end of the day, it just felt like I was getting a lot more car for my money.

The comparison is similar because the same would have been said if an 06 BMW had been in question, and it would have more accurately reflected the price points brought up in the original question.

[pwd72s]

image

[kaisen]

Feel? Image? Je nais se quoi?

[pwd72s]

To Paraphrase... money may not buy happiness, but it's better to cry in a Mercedes than a Hyundai.

Again, "image"...what others may think, sells more cars than many here will admit.

[URY914]

When you go to one of them fancy places to eat, do the nice boys that park your car leave it up front or in the lot down the street?

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by URY914

When you go to one of them fancy places to eat, do the nice boys that park your car leave it up front or in the lot down the street?

A Mercedes E350 will be in back 9 out of 10 times. Unless you live in Arkansas.

[sc_rufctr]

Just compare any 10+ year Hyundai to a 10+ year Mercedes.

The MB holds up better in the long run.
............ The quality of the trim and plastic on the inside and outside of the car is better than the Hyundai. (including paint)

However that may not be so important to someone who regularly changes their car.

Image and marketing play a huge roll.
For instance Toyota make great cars and have an excellent reputation for build quality and yet Toyota felt they had to create a new brand name to build their luxury car.

I believe that if you're driving a car that you actually want to drive then you'll look after it and maintain it better.

............................................

Personally I think cars are the biggest scam ever.

[racer]

Luxury is always changing... it USED to be based in Quality and High price. Think Packards and Caddillacs vs just "ford" or "chevy". Its exclusion based on economics.

Luxury can also be quality. Most "luxury cars" in the beginning were distiguished by quality. In this case, I think of the "safety" and "mileage" you would get out of a 1960s Benz vs a typical american sedan. MB engines would go 100K miles when most domestic V8s were done at 50K miles.

Luxury might also be "originator". The japanese and korean firms are quick to follow perceived luxuty marques when it comes to appointments, aesthetics etc. But they typically do it to a lower price point.

Words like "heritage", "history", "engineering principles", "exclusivity" (price/cost etc) are all a part of it. And to those willing to discern it, "feel" becomes a big part of it.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

To Paraphrase... money may not buy happiness, but it's better to cry in a Mercedes than a Hyundai.

Again, "image"...what others may think, sells more cars than many here will admit.

That's so true. Most of what people do is to impress people that don't matter.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

Just compare any 10+ year Hyundai to a 10+ year Mercedes.

The MB holds up better in the long run.
............ The quality of the trim and plastic on the inside and outside of the car is better than the Hyundai. (including paint)

I think that's not as true today as it was 10+ years ago. MB quality had slipped (maybe better now) and Hyundai quality is certainly much, much better today. And so is Ford, GM, Chrsyler, Mazda, and others. The real quality gap has shrunk from the best to the worst.

Go look at a 2000 Mercedes E class today. The leathers and plastics didn't hold up too well. The paint disintegrates and gets splotchy.

I think if you treated them the same, you'd have equally reliable cars in similar shape in, say, 5 years.

HOWEVER, you're RIGHT! Your typical Mercedes owner takes much, much better care of their cars than the typical Hyundai owner.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by kaisen

But again, what is luxury? Why are we willing to pay the extra money? What is the difference?

Didn't you just answer the question?

The real question is what makes an exotic?

[G50-Love]

Electronic gizmos are cheap these days, and that means a low priced car can have the same "stuff" on it as a luxury car. That doesn't include radar proximity systems (yet).

What did that BMW ad say about price and luxury cars? Oh yeh, something about speed and performance...

[djnolan]

It is safe to say some of the asian manufacturers have caught up to the european's in quality (mechanical tolerances, material strength and quality, form and fit, reliability) and are beating them at their own game. But when you put a hyundai up against a toyota or lexus, can you see or feel a difference?

When I look at a front wheel drive car like a lexus or a camry, I see a very reliable transaxel followed by a highly styled sheetmetal and plastic box. Not that difficult to design or build!

[dewolf]

Three numbers.......9....2....8

oh, sorry that's exotic...carry on.

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

Just compare any 10+ year Hyundai to a 10+ year Mercedes.

The MB holds up better in the long run.
............ The quality of the trim and plastic on the inside and outside of the car is better than the Hyundai. (including paint)

I drive a 12 year old E class with 382k kms (236k miles ). I thought about trading it in for an '06 last year, but I couldn't do it. It's reliable, safe and rock solid on the highway. I paid $2500 for a full paint job the week before Christmas instead, and the car looks great now. It does not look or drive like a 12 year old car with 200+ k miles, and I beat on that car mercilessly. It is still a classy, comfortable car that I feel great about driving clients around in.

[strupgolf]

Originally Posted by URY914

When you go to one of them fancy places to eat, do the nice boys that park your car leave it up front or in the lot down the street?

Hell, I don't know. I'm inside eating.

[VaSteve]

Originally Posted by racer

Its exclusion based on economics.

This. And a lot of it is relative.

People always refer to a Porsche as "luxury". It is to the man with a beater Escort just trying to get to work. Starbucks is "a luxury". They sell coffee at the 7-11. Purses in Beverly Hills that cost $2000+ are luxury...what intrinsically makes them better than a generic bag.

Performance, dimensions, specs, those cars are the same...thus the more expensive one is luxury.

MB is closely watching Hyundai...they have made massive leaps in quality in the last 10-15 years.

[speeder]

Hyundais have really come a long ways in quality along with other Korean marques like Kia. A great car for the money. I still do not think that it compares to a Mercedes Benz in an apples/apples way regardless of equipment or specs. I don't think that Hondas do either and Hondas are outstanding cars.

I'll probably get flamed for this but...

I spend a lot of time in a Mercedes repair facility and have owned easily 20-30 Mercedes cars as well as 100 other cars and I think that Mercedes benz is still the best car in the world. Years ago, in the '80s, my boss at Westwood Porsche and I were talking cars as we often did. He was a European guy, former rally driver and all-around great car guy and cultured gentleman. I made the bold statement that "Mercedes Benz is the best car in the world" and he nodded. He said, "You can say that they're over-priced but there is nothing else like it."

I still believe this. At the end of the day, the safest car in the world is the best car in the world. You will pay a non-linear price premium for it but there is nothing else like it. YMMV.

[wdfifteen]

I think those who say "image" have hit the nail on the head.
I wish I could design my own car from the ground up. Based on the cars I've owned I'd have the image of a Mercedes, the power train and lighting system of a BMW, and the controls of a five year old Toyota truck.