Audio guys: Garage speaker connection question

[motion]

I installed 4 Yamaha dual driver in-wall speakers into my garage ceiling. I also added a Pyle dual 8" subwoofer. I think its also an in-wall speaker, but I put it in the ceiling. I found all these things pretty cheap on Amazon. I know they aren't optimized for in-ceiling, but I could always add a quick and dirty particle board enclosure to each of them later on.

I have a new Pioneer surround receiver. Its a cheapy, but has all the connections and features I need. I also have an Apple TV connected, and everything displays to my LCD on the wall.

Getting to the point.... since the subwoofer doesn't have a RCA-style jack for subwoofer connection, I daisy chained everything, according to instructions I found online:

Receiver left/right goes to subwoofer left/right. From the subwoofer, I went to the right/left speakers. Since I don't want surround (no movies, just music and races), I ran the 4 speakers in parallel. So, I am not using any surround features from the receiver, just stereo.

In the receiver, I set the SW to off, and set the Front channel to Large. I changed the xover from 100 to 80. I found all these instructions online.

The issue is that while everything sounds decent, there is too much mid/high coming from the subwoofer. I was kind of expecting the subwoofer to just rumble, and more volume would come out of the 4 speakers. It seems like the subwoofer is over-powering the other speakers, and trying to also handle the mid/highs.

Any ideas on what to adjust next?

One thing I'm suspecting, is that I didn't connect to the sub properly. Maybe I connected to the outputs, and connected the speakers to the inputs? Nothing is marked on the sub, so I was just guessing. Is it possible that it would make any difference?

[dad911]

I think you need something like this: Subwoofer Crossover 8 Ohm 150 Hz 200W

Those look like they are all speakers with no crossovers. You need either a separate amp for sub or a crossover.

[imcarthur]

It sounds like the sub doesn't have a low pass filter so you are running it full range in series with the mains. You could wire them separately from the receiver (on the same terminals) & put a volume control on the mains & one on the sub to adjust comparative volume, but that still won't reduce the sub's higher frequencies.

Ian

[LeeH]

What's the model of the sub? My guess is that it has no crossover.

[Eric Coffey]

EDIT:

It sounds like the sub out from receiver is just signal/RCA, and sub is passive/line-level only. So, the sub on/off switch in the receiver wouldn’t have any effect on your current configuration. I think you have three options:

1. Keep current Sub, and buy a sub amp. Then run sub outs from receiver to it (and sub) w/ the sub-out in receiver set to "on" (activating x-over). Then run the 4 speakers from the main L/R channels (wired series/parallel, depending on their Ω load & receiver's capability).

2. Ditch current sub, and buy a powered one (no additional sub amp required). Then run sub outs from receiver to powered sub w/ the sub-out in receiver set to "on" and/or use any internal x-over settings built-in to powered sub. Then run the 4 speakers from the main L/R channels (wired series/parallel, depending on their Ω load & receiver's capability). This is probably the best option.

3. Keep current configuration, but put passive x-over network inline, as Dad911 suggested above. However, if you go this route, you might go with a two-way set-up, and a x-over point a bit lower, say around 80hz. That would keep the high freq's away from the sub, and the lows away from the smaller mids.

[motion]

Originally Posted by LeeH

What's the model of the sub? My guess is that it has no crossover.

I think you guys are right about no crossover. Here is what I have: Amazon.com: Pyle Home PDIWS28 Dual 8-Inch In-Wall High Power Subwoofer System: Electronics

Maybe I should return it and get this: Amazon.com: Pyle Home PDIWCS62 Dual 6.5-Inch 2-Way In-Wall Center-Channel Speaker System: Electronics

Thoughts?

[motion]

Hmmm..... I've already carved a hole in the ceiling and the 6.5" dual subwoofer with crossover is smaller, so that's not going to work. Looks like I'll need to add a crossover, as dad911 suggested. Are they hard to figure out and add? I've never done anything like this, but I do have a *****in set of tools

[Eric Coffey]

If you have to keep that ceiling sub, you might look at the separate sub-amp route. You should be able to find something in the 50-100w range fairly cheap. That way you could run those dual subs in mono (with a mono/bridgeable amp) and the other (L/R) channels in stereo, using the electronic x-over in the receiver. Probably better than trying to run everything off of two channels (with passive in-line x-over) on a "cheapy" receiver anyhow.

[imcarthur]

Passive 100Hz xover: 100 Hz Low Pass 8 Ohm Crossover

Inwall/inceiling subs pretty much suck btw. Especially unamplified. A woofer needs current to start woofing & your receiver will be driving a 4 ohm load - at best. I also would recommend a separate amp. And if you are determined to put it in the ceiling, box the cavity above the woofer so you get some rear compression for the drivers.

Ian

[motion]

I'm definitely not going to get a separate amp for the woofer. Ian, will I need 2 of those, one for each channel?

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

Inwall/inceiling subs pretty much suck btw.

yep.

You would have been better off with a cheap, stand-alone powered unit you could tuck somewhere, rather than anything in-wall/un-enclosed.

You should be able to find a cheap sub amp for under $100 (or around half that used).

Something like these:

AudioSource AMP-100 2 Channel Amplifier | eBay
AudioSource AMP-100 2-Channel Bridgeable Stereo Amp | eBay
AudioSource Amp -100 2 Channel Amplifier ~ 50 Watts | eBay
Carver TFM6C TFM-6C with manual excellent condition | eBay

etc.


Or, you could probably find a stand-alone powered sub for about the same price (ebay, CL, etc.), and patch up the hole in the ceiling.

[imcarthur]

You could use one & feed the subs from one channel but to ease the load on your receiver, stereo would be best. Wire from receiver to x-overs to subs. Run separate wires to the main inwalls. You will still not be able to adjust the balance between them unless you volume pot them. Since the frequency response is 60Hz - 4kHz, the filter will cut everything above 100 Hz but it will not allow you to attenuate the response below.

Ian

[motion]

Great, thanks. The subs are in the ceiling, so I want to make them work. Just need a little bass... not looking for anything audiophile. I'll go with 2 of em

[motion]

Wassup?

OK, I wired in the filters. The subs are thumpin nicely, but nothing is going to the other speakers? All I have is bass.

To summarize, here's my signal stream:

1. Receiver L/R out

to

Filters (one for each channel)

to

Dual subs

to

Speakers (2 for each channel, in parallel)

[motion]

Hmmmm.... guessing I shouldn't go from the sub output to the speakers?

Probably should go from the receiver to filter/subs & speakers in parallel?

[Cajundaddy]

Active Xover with separate sub amp is probably the way to go if you want to keep the ceiling sub. Just run the other speakers full range from the receiver and tune the sub to taste. What impedance are all of these speakers? Running too low will fry the amplifier quickly.

This is a fairly detailed vid explaining how to connect a separate sub amp or active sub and then carefully tune it to your system and listening area for best results. Well tuned subs sound rich and vivid and add to the listening experience. Poorly tuned subs just wreck the sound quality and make everything sound boomy and unbalanced.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzCIMufCQLk

[motion]

Dont wanna run a separate amp for the subs. That's way too serious for my chintzy garage system.

Here are my speakers: Amazon.com: Yamaha NS-IW760 6.5" 2-Way In-Wall Speaker System (White): Electronics

And Sub: Amazon.com: Pyle Home PDIWS28 Dual 8-Inch In-Wall High Power Subwoofer System: Electronics

[Cajundaddy]

Each channel will be running at 3 ohm (two parallel 6 ohm full range) without the sub. That is already seriously low for most recievers so just too many speakers and not enough amp. You don't have enough amp to run the sub without frying the amp. 2 choices- Ignore the sub completely or add a sub amp.

[MysticLlama]

Does the amp have another 2nd zone in/speaker connection?

If it does, sometimes you can do a short RCA from the sub out to the zone2 in and it'll be crossed over, then you use the zone2 volume to get the sub volume level where you want.

[motion]

You guys rock. I hate this stuff.

Here is my receiver: Amazon.com: Pioneer VSX-520-K 5.1 Home Theater Receiver: Electronics

Rear view:



It has a single RCA type subwoofer out. Assuming that is only for a powered subwoofer? Or can I somehow wire that to my subwoofers using a L/R speaker cable?