Alternative Energy sources

[RWebb]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/11/opinion/11Prager.html

[Hugh R]

I worked on Tokamaks in 1976 at the Francis Bitter National Magnetic Lab at MIT. They are still not net power producers. But they have made great leaps in 35 years from milliseconds to around a full second.

[RWebb]

if we put $30 Billion into PV solar and waited 20 years...

we'd have actual power, not just a demo unit

[MotoSook]

Fusion, cold fusion has been a dream for decades. It's the silver bullet....yet we waste billions on the fluffy green energy we see today.

If we ever get close the energy industry as we know it will be decimated. Just give me another 30 yrs and I'll be ready to retire...

[RWebb]

the article is about "hot" fusion - i.e. plasma stuff

[island911]

Originally Posted by RWebb

the article is about "hot" fusion - i.e. plasma stuff

no, the article is about "give us big money, and then hope for a miracle"

[sammyg2]

Close your eyes, pretend real hard, and maybe, maybe, the fantasy will come true. In your dreams.
I would love for these things to work, but I'm too much of a realist to pretend they will.

As soon as they come up with something that's real and actually has a slight chance to be feasible, I'll be going to work in that industry. You can bet on that.
but so far all they've come up with is BS to give libs wet dreams and get politicians to give them stoopid money.

There's a difference between reality and fantasy, you can't change the laws of physics.

[wdfifteen]

The US spends too much being the world's policeman to invest in the future. We are being left behind by the same people we spend our money protecting.

[MarKoBrow]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Close your eyes, pretend real hard, and maybe, maybe, the fantasy will come true. In your dreams.
I would love for these things to work, but I'm too much of a realist to pretend they will.

As soon as they come up with something that's real and actually has a slight chance to be feasible, I'll be going to work in that industry. You can bet on that.
but so far all they've come up with is BS to give libs wet dreams and get politicians to give them stoopid money.

There's a difference between reality and fantasy, you can't change the laws of physics.

I am pretty sure a similar sentiment was told to Ed Drake and Samuel Martin Kier in 1859. I am sure if we could place you in that time frame you would be defending whaling as a means to get lamp oil right about now, wouldn't you?

[Tim Hancock]

Govt subsidizing folks to use present PV solar and ethanol makes about as much sense as if the govt required us to switch to whale oil today.

All this money would be better spent trying to come up with "feasible" new large scale energy sources along with designing/building better modern nuclear reactors.... That would make sense.

[IROC]

I have a stack of PowerPoint slides in my office from a recent ITER design review. I read through most of them. After going through them and talking to the guy that actually attended the review in France, the take-away is that the physics of fusion power is reasonably well understood, but the engineering challenges are monumental. Most of the focus has been on the physics portion of the problem (and probably rightfully so), with the physicists waving their hands and saying, "well, the engineers will figure that out". Well, the engineers are struggling.

I used to think that commercially-viable fusion power was attainable, but I am starting to become a skeptic. At least in the ITER configuration. I hope I'm wrong.

[IROC]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

All this money would be better spent trying to come up with "feasible" new large scale energy sources along with designing/building better modern nuclear reactors.... That would make sense.

We're on it!! TVA has signed a letter of intent to build 6 modular reactors on a sight close to here and has also taken steps to resurrect Bellefonte NP. Watts Bar NP Unit 2 is nearing completion. Here at the lab the Consortium for Advanced Simulation of Light Water Reactors (CASL) has been created to take advantage of the massive computing power we have (and most of the nuclear experts in the country).

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by IROC

I have a stack of PowerPoint slides in my office from a recent ITER design review. I read through most of them. After going through them and talking to the guy that actually attended the review in France, the take-away is that the physics of fusion power is reasonably well understood, but the engineering challenges are monumental. Most of the focus has been on the physics portion of the problem (and probably rightfully so), with the physicists waving their hands and saying, "well, the engineers will figure that out". Well, the engineers are struggling.

I used to think that commercially-viable fusion power was attainable, but I am starting to become a skeptic. At least in the ITER configuration. I hope I'm wrong.

You need something to capture the energy of the fast neutrons and keep it in the reaction, right? Easy on the scale of a star, not so easy in a reactor. Or at least this was how it was explained to me in my undergrad Nuke-E courses...

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by IROC

We're on it!! TVA has signed a letter of intent to build 6 modular reactors on a sight close to here and has also taken steps to resurrect Bellefonte NP. Watts Bar NP Unit 2 is nearing completion. Here at the lab the Consortium for Advanced Simulation of Light Water Reactors (CASL) has been created to take advantage of the massive computing power we have (and most of the nuclear experts in the country).

Are they looking at Pebble Bed at all? The high temp gas cooled can be so much more efficient, thermally.

[IROC]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Are they looking at Pebble Bed at all? The high temp gas cooled can be so much more efficient, thermally.

I hope so. I am not directly involved in any of this, but I hope everything is on the table. One of the buildings I go to on a regular basis is called the "Experimental Gas Cooled Reactor". They got it right up to the point of start-up and then canceled it. Here's a pic - I take pictures of everything with my cell phone:

[RWebb]

thx, Mike was hoping you'd post on this

the author of the Op-Ed BTW seems to be an astrophysicist, so it seems he will not directly benefit from any funding