I choose not to beg
 

So there was this auction on ebay, for a charity gig for the Tsunami victims in Japan.

I will be honest I'm typically not big on charity, imho i believe it's more important to help in person where possible if asked for help by somebody.. And I donate blood.. But nevermind I digress.

The reason I did bid, was the return favour, eg it was a major record company for Japan. And I bid on an acoustic set @ my house by an up and coming band here in Belgium.

I won the auction, I was stoked.


I totally expected that the band would be very busy during the festival season. And I totally understand that they have to forge the iron while it is hot (dutch proverb, not sure if it is. Also known in english).

So sent em a few mails to see how it would be planned.. Initially they responded.
Talked to the record company.. They were telling be they would propose some dates..
Waited about 3 weeks, sent an email asking for an update.. Nothing
Call the record company guy, no answer, turn on hidden identity on phone.. He does answer and tells me he'll chase it.
I thank him.. Wait 2 weeks, repeat..

After about 2 months, I escalate the issue via the charity/auction people, who tell me they will get it looked at by the VP of artist relations@ the record company.

Within a week I get dates proposed by the band manager ( who never even replied to any previous mail).. I thank hin, I pick a date and I ask him to confirm if that works for him..

Nor reply. + 2 weeks , I ask again if he can get back to me and confirm the dates.. Nothing
+ 1 week ,thursday I had enough and told him to get lost



"Hi Dennis,


Again it seems that we have settled on a routine of me sending you emails , trying to get a date sorted, and you repeatedly not answering.

I do not ask much, you could have answered with :
"i'm sorry, i'm a bit busy right now, i'll get back to you"
Or even "No, i'm afraid your idea of things does not work for us"..

Any answer would have been better then nothing at all.
It's incredibly rude and frankly, i find it insulting to me personally.


Thebandnamegot plenty of free publicity out of the Charity deal for Japan on Facebook and National Radio.

I on the other hand payed a reasonable amount thinking that yes you guys have a busy touring schedule, no it won't be "next week".
But am i unreasonable to expect a bit of pro-activity, commitment and respect from the other party in this deal? Is that to much to ask?

Miranda @ Kompolt was the only one in this ordeal that was friendly andhelpful (Miranda, thanks again).
After 3 and a half months chasing both yourself and others for updates, let me tell you how this is going to work out :

' It ends right here '

Forget the acoustic set, i have to much negative feelings and frustration over this, to the point that i simply couldn't possibly see my expectations met, never mind enjoy the gig.

In short : you are off the hook.
I had enough and i'm putting this behind me.

From my end, i end it right here then continue to be frustrated and ignored/insulted by you.
At the very least i get to feel good that somebody in Japan was helped out by me.

No need to worry , i won't throw dirt in the media, i could, it might even be deserved... but that's not how i operate.

Stijn Vandamme"



After that, suddenly he did reply , with some BS about communication problems , rubbish, the mails he send do arrive if he bothers to send em.
Either way, i had enough, it makes me feel like a begger to chase THEM up to do their part of the charity deal.
And Beggers can't be choosers , so i choose not to beg... It frustrates me , it stresses me out to the point that i'de rather eat my loss then to continue with this kind of people.
I find dissapointment easier to deal with then frustration over something that is still ongoing...

But i am very much dissapointed that it went this way over a charity thing, i expected everybody to come with the best effort, best behaviour because it was charity.. my mistake i guess.

Which band?

Tell him you'll talk with the press and will get them a bad rep if they don't show.

Or don't have them at your place and spread the news anyway.



EDIT: after your edit... Screw them, I'd get the word out. Like you said, enjoying the set is impossible now. Teaching them a lesson is the least you can do.

I really do not want to drag it on any further, nor do i want to lower myself..
If i did that, it would be "begging".

You're too kind.

It's a business transaction and you got screwed.
Don't get back at them, get even. Your donation is made either way, you did your part

Which band? Will you let us know, so I don't buy any cd's from them?

It's ethics: either I hunt them down, and put them against the wall in the media, or I start looking to recup my cash.. In which cases I am clearly abandning the idea of the charity, eg I lower myself.

Or I continue asking them repeatedly, till eventually they show up, at which point I can't enjoy things because of all the frustration leading up to the gig..
This too I feel is lowering. Myself, begging..

I do not accept those way of dealing with this.

No I won't mention the band, for 2 reasons: 1 I said I would'nt go public, 2 it's the manager that stonewalled me, not te artists

Many groups (musical, business or otherwise) do these charity gigs only for publicity and to chase the money. They're getting the PR for free if you let them off the hook.

I can see how getting your cash back would be lowering yourself. I would never do that either.
But I sure as hell wouldn't let those a-holes get some credit for supposedly doing performances for charity.
If you ever decide to get even. One of my ex-girlfriends works for Sanoma, which owns Story, our national gossip rag. I can hook you up.
Either way, you're a good guy for helping those in need.

Can't do that, I would be breaking my own word.
Nor do I see how that would make me feel better..

Stijn,
I appreciate your situation and don't blame you for your actions. I think you took the high road.

A thought crossed my mind that perhaps the band could make a donation to a cause of yours - perhaps an animal rescue organization - instead of the performance you had won in the auction. That way at least they would be accountable for doing something in return for what you "paid for".

Regards,
Bazza

PM me the name, I won't do anything except not buying their music anymore.

Thought about that bazza, but that requires me to continue dealing with the a-hole band manager.. And because I blew up negotiations, and the band is new, not rich, I expect that will not work out better then the actual gig negotiations..

Threaten to go over to the band managers house and perform an acoustic set singing and playing the accordian, I'll bet that will get some action....

It isn't breaking your word, it is changing your mind. But it is up to you, not othere here to cajole you into naming the band.

You are missing the point, it's the manager, not the band..
I am totally giving them the benefit of the doubt, artists are to Effing romantic and mellow to even figure out what happens to them when they begin to get famous...Which is whay they all need management...

I did send 2 of the band i can find on Facebook, a CC of my mail to the manager.
Maybe they will respond when find a minute to check their messages...

If i tell somebody on the record that i won't do it.. then i change my mind and i do it anyway.. I am in fact breaking my own word.

True, if it is only the manager that is being a dick, there's no need to go after the bamd as well.
I do think the band will also know about giving a small appearance but the manager may be feeding them BS as to why the concert is not goin to take place. Impossible for us to know that for sure.

Contacting them on FB directly is a good idea.
I'm curious to know how it will turn out.

If they are popular in Belgium, either run the Facebook effort or go see them in person and approach them directly.

Email bombs work as well, either on their website or through the charities folks. They need to know in any event.

I like your sense of style and ethical approach to a knotty problem. I'm willing to work a third party approach as well.

interesting how you keep mentioning your word ,
and that once you give it, it is non negotiable.

I commend you sir for keeping your word,
as thats all we have to keep us on our own path of integrity!

Your feet will eventually catch up to your words,
if they match then your integrity is intact.

I think I know who they are, and if I'm right it's a shame that they most likely won't come anymore after all this.

(If they still do, can I come, cause they're actually quite good... :D)

You have a PM.

By letting them off the hook, you're setting others up for the same trap you fell into. Let people know about this and name names. It's the right thing to do. Wouldn't matter so much if this weren't a gig designed to get people to write checks to charity. Help stop the fraud.

This is under the assumption that I am correct.

Whatever you decide to do, they are already taking credit for it on their website....

(And if it's them, they have the ebay link on there too. Damn, it shows the winning bid, you paid good money, and not a small amount!)

Rick, they did not refuse the deal, I was the one to blow it up because I was frustrated and pissed off about how they dealth with it. With they, I mean the manager..


There is no reason to believe they would not have honoured their part of the deal , eventually.
It's just that I , refused to be ignored and frustrated more then I have been allready.
It's a subtle difference from "fraud"

^^^^^ +1000

I commend you sir for staying true to your word. Sadly, that has become lost to many people. Not on this site, but people in general.

Dave

Stijn,

I’m sorry to read this.
I think you are maintaining the correct approach.
Hopefully not too much money is involved.
Keep up your good works. The world is full of good people like you.

Best,
Grady

Stijn,

Comendable on your part. Degrading on theirs.

It is likely the band and not just the manager who are doing this to you. Just as a thought.

As another thought, you might actually name the manager so no one else gets stuck with the same treatment as you. You did not say you would not out the manager...


As for the gig, IF they were to perform I would have them do it in front of the local animal shelter. Collect money for the shelter, take nothing for myself. And keep the press rights, the shelter could use them, the band, not so much.

By reading the first post I can't figure out if the band stuck the manager's neck out or the manger stuck out the necks of the band members. I guess I would have to ask who's responsible for this coming to auction and who is supposed to guarantee the performance will occur. At least let them all understand each other so if this breach does actually come to light some day, they will know amongst themselves who to blame.

I think you need to get some swag. CDs, pictures, autographs, t shirts, etc., etc...

Good swag. That is something they CAN deliver. And tickets. Concert tickets. Front row or thereabouts.

How hard would that be ?

In the U.S. "strike while the iron's hot".

David, I don't know how much is the band or not, but it's the manager who is supposed to manage. And he failed on basic manners if you ask me.. If it was the band, he still could have given me a reply of sorts..

Animal shelter , sure, but the auction was for an acoustic set at my home, not transferrable, only 8 guests allowed..

As for outing, I did not differnentiate manager from band when I saidd I wasn't going to throw dirt in the media.. Frankly if I name one, the other is instantly implicated..

Zeke, there's no way of finding out, the only way is if the band members came out and replied with something good on the forward of that mail..

This thing is bugging me still, not the deal it self, but the mechanics of why I pulled the plug...
In short: my tolerance for BS is way to low, and when I get dealt BS it stresses me out.. It consumes me , which is why I wanted out, reagardless of my lost investment.. I rate the stress it gives me more costly...

I think it's a weird side effect from having quit smoking (1 year 3 months now)

Daniel, it's a small indie band.. Not much swag to be had.. Already seen em at a concert.. I'm not looking for swag.. Swag don't fix the ignoring I got..few things piss me off more then being ignored and having to chase things to get what I should..I chase **** @ work, so after work, I don't see it as an enjoyable thing...

Stijn,

VERY GOOD on the smoking thing!!! Proud of you! Keep up the good work! It will pay off in years spent on this world (and reminding us of the poppies in Flanders!!!).


I think the main thing is to let the organizers of the auction know what has happened. They need to know so they do not get caught again with an invalid item to auction. In some areas by someone else the auction might be held to some liability for failure to deliver? Anyway, I feel you owe it to the auction folks to out the group and manager, which you might have already done. You do not owe it to us to out anyone.

I do not know if you receive tax discounts for donations to major charities. IF so, the charity could reflect that your donation was just that as you received nothing for your money other than good feelings. The charity would likely then take off the tax deductions for the manager and the group they were working to take for their own money. Just a thought....


I wish you the best! I know it is hard to let go of when we feel ripped off, especially when it is done so personally! Know you have done something good for the people of Japan. Continue to do good works locally, you will feel good for it!

Sorry to hear, Stijn. I know you were looking forward to them a while back.

How about contacting the record company??
The initiated the auction, surely they want the transaction to be honoured?
Tell'em what an asswipe the manager has been.

Record Company dude covers for the manager. Teh first 2 months i was dealing with him.. nothing happened. He's the one that didn't answer his phone till i turned off number recognition (and it's not like i called him often).

At some point i did get it escalated via auction/charity organisation, and supposedly it went up to the VP artist relations.. That's when i suddenly got dates proposed..
Frankly, i can't be arsed anymore, i've notified everybody involved and voiced my unhappyness to them.. for me, it's a write off.

I can understand you've kinda had enough.

This is one of the things where I think FB could be useful. If it was me, I'd create an account specially for this and spread the word. (But that's just me, I have trouble letting things slide)

Too bad it turned out this way.
Anyhoo, I'm not buying their stuff, I'll be downloading it for fuhking free. (How gangster is that? :))

No. Fuch that.

My wife and I give to charity. Some times its for a good or service. Sorry, but NO, if your holding an auction, and there is product offered, then I expect the product to show up. If it doesn't show up, then your auction is really just a 'give us cash and STFU' transaction. Great if your the mafia, but if an organization expects to be legit in any way, then thats no way of doing business.

I would pursue it, and be a class A dick about getting what you bid on.

You should make them bring beer - and lots of it.