If only British citizens had something to protect themselves....

[MFAFF]

Originally Posted by red-beard

The footage I've seen did not show 10 year olds.

Watch some different footage.. they are there... and in some cases have been arrested.

[MFAFF]

Originally Posted by slakjaw

it cracks me up. We take better care of our homeless here in the USA than they do in the UK.

Right...

[Rick Lee]

It really strains your credibility to remotely try to pin any of this on 10 yr. olds. Maybe they have arrested a few. But kids, who aren't even old enough to be pissed off about economic or political conditions do not start riots and burn down buildings. Does not happen. No, I wouldn't shoot a 10 yr. old. I'd just wring his neck and drag him by his ear lobe back to his parents' house.

[davidbir]

Believe me, the last thing the British people want is firearms--they look on the US obsession with guns with abhorrence.
I left England 38 years ago because it was a dysfunctional society-totally class based with merit having no say. It has improved somewhat since then in terms of opportunities but the huge number of immigrants--550,000 last year alone--means that the people at the bottom of the pile feel they are sinking lower. And when you have nothing to lose the law means very little.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Heel n Toe

One of the Brits' comments on that link sums up one aspect of the problem very well... and is equally true for the U.S. as well as any country that operates a similar pervasive "government assistance" insanity.

"The underlying problem is the destruction of the family. The result is a generation of immoral, unprincipled, uneducated alleycats charitably called men who prey on and freely impregnate equally immoral and vunerable young women. Chances are that most of these lousy young vandals and petty thiefs were "raised" by these unwed mothers who are encouraged in their unhealthy lifestyles by the promise of receiving totally unearned "benefits" (ie., welfare/charity/handouts - money earned by their working and contributing neighbors, and heavily "appropriated" by our uninspired taxing agencies to simply hand out to the unproductive drones in our society - thus perpetuating our dying welfare state).

Until personal virtue and the sanctity of family are taught in our schools and re-enthroned in our communities, these riots in the streets and the related vandalism and pillaging (stealing) by those crooks who will never be satisfied with the level of their unearned government handouts will only increase until we have total anarchy."

LOL, the PC police are going to be very upset with that author

[slakjaw]

Originally Posted by MFAFF

Right...

Do you disagree? Why?

I saw their little town of shacks down by the river in Bristol. They were eating some kind of animal they had killed earlier that day.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by davidbir

Believe me, the last thing the British people want is firearms--they look on the US obsession with guns with abhorrence.

I agree. And guns wouldn't make things better here for a few reasons. First among them being that in the UK you'd go to prison for using a weapon in your own defense. Second is that no one really cares when it's just other people's businesses or cars or gov't. buildings getting trashed. Anyone can watch that on tv and not even get upset about it unless it happens to be your business or your car in flames. In the US you can use a gun to defend your home or business and people do it sometimes. Works here. Wouldn't work there.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

10 yr. olds did that? Are you joking? I thought we had a lot of bad parents in the US. You have 10 yr. olds who do stuff like that?

I've never seen riots like this spread to residential areas in the US. But rest assured, private homes would be well defended in the US by armed homeowners and they'd not be asking to check ID's or age before shooting rioters, looters, marauders, etc.

The rot-ney king riots were speading, but stopped far from the orange curtain border. They knew better than to go up against a bunch of pizzed off well armed folks who don't put up with that kind of crap.

If the good guys are armed, the criminals won't like the odds.
But then again, some societies are more comfortable being victims rather than victors.

[MFAFF]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

It really strains your credibility to remotely try to pin any of this on 10 yr. olds. Maybe they have arrested a few. But kids, who aren't even old enough to be pissed off about economic or political conditions do not start riots and burn down buildings. Does not happen. No, I wouldn't shoot a 10 yr. old. I'd just wring his neck and drag him by his ear lobe back to his parents' house.

Rick.. your opinion is irrelevant.. 10-11 year olds have been arrested here after being cuaght with looted goods on the street. They do not start the riots.. no absolutely correct but they are 'rioting' and looting....whether you like it/ or think it does not happen matters not.

Now should they be out doing this.. no absolutely not and it would be good to think you could do as you suggest.. in this case you might recieve a petrol bomb or two as reward...or an earful from the parents.

[MFAFF]

Originally Posted by slakjaw

Do you disagree? Why?

I saw their little town of shacks down by the river in Bristol. They were eating some kind of animal they had killed earlier that day.

That may indeed be the case...and I am sure I could cherry pick the examples of homeless I saw in 5 years of living in DC.. and base my opinion on that.. or not as the case may be....

But it might not be great to make a sweeping generalisation...

[slakjaw]

I'm sorry to have offended you. I saw the homeless being screamed at by people saying stuff like I'm tired of paying for you so bugger off and what not. The ones I spoke with who were eating a duck, (I think) made me wonder if there were soup
kitchens. I'm terribly sorry to generalize and this thread isn't about homeless people I'm afraid.

Quote de slakjaw

Do you disagree? Why?



I saw their little town of shacks down by the river in Bristol. They were eating some kind of animal they had killed earlier that day.

That may indeed be the case...and I am sure I could cherry pick the examples of homeless I saw in 5 years of living in DC.. and base my opinion on that.. or not as the case may be....



But it might not be great to make a sweeping generalisation...

[Hugh R]

The British put up huge immigrant families in very expensive apartments in nice parts of London, because that is where those people want to live. Its really quite amazing.

[slakjaw]

This is what I was told and the forgotten ones are truly forgotten. At least this is what I was told.

The British put up huge immigrant families in very expensive apartments in nice parts of London, because that is where those people want to live. Its really quite amazing.

[MFAFF]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

The British put up huge immigrant families in very expensive apartments in nice parts of London, because that is where those people want to live. Its really quite amazing.

Correct.. but its not that 'they' want to live there....each local authority here has an obligation to provide homes for those who 'need thwm' in their own borough.

Do you really think the City of London or of Westminister really want to own residential property in their borough in order to house people? Givne the choice they would not and those unable to afford to live in those areas would have to move out.. far out of London, passing the porblem to other local government bodies...who may have far less income....and hence ability to provide for these people who would then be homeless and cause far great problems...a vicious circle that was started many generations ago...

[davidbir]

Some of you seem to be ignoring the point that if the home owners had guns the rioters would have guns too...

A similar situation occured in Vancouver recently, as I am sure you know. The cause there was
certainly different to England-most of the Vancouver rioters were not the poor and uneducated. Thrill seeking? Some were I think. "Social media" seems to play into it and provide a means of gathering a large group of like minded people in one place quickly-certainly that was the case in Vancouver.
No guns appeared in Vancouver either I am happy to say.

England may finally be at a point that has been brewing for many, many years.

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Jim, how many people has Rick shot when he got into an argument? When someone dinged his 911, did he shoot them?

The stats show that the people who have a chl are more law abiding (factor of 5) and understand the laws concerning use of a firearm better than the police. Your statements are speculative at best, and are probably made up by some anti-gunner group. They simply are what happens in Hollywood, not real life. The "Wild West" wasn't even the wild west.

Red,

I'm not an anti-gun guy. My thoughts are my thoughts. I have been to China and it probably the safest place I have ever felt in the world. No one pan handled me, I had no fear walking down alleys in Shanghai or Nanchang, no matter what the hour was. Why? It is a police state: cameras everywhere and no guns. Rick, you are right, those in the city would disappear. This is the point I was making: you would diappear. You might think twice about doing something.

I walked thru the street on Soho that night, not the best neighborhood. Not that I'm looking to get harmed, Maybe it was false security on my part, but the absence of guns influenced my decision.

The USA is the most heavily armed country in the world. Laws are for the law abiding. They don't apply to those who illegally obtain, own or use firearms. We probably don't enforce the laws we have and I'm certainly not advocating for more gun control.

I don't buy the argument guns make me safer. I don't beleive they would change the outcome of the UK riots. There is underlying rage that has yet to be expressed.


One more thought: During the roits in the late 60's and 70's, communities that were destroyed were poor. The have nots preyed on the have nots. I can only speak to areas in Detroit and Chicago, the burned out areas remained leveled for years. Minority shop owners moved, nothing got rebuilt and large retailers refuse to build there.

[MFAFF]

Originally Posted by slakjaw

I'm sorry to have offended you. I saw the homeless being screamed at by people saying stuff like I'm tired of paying for you so bugger off and what not. The ones I spoke with who were eating a duck, (I think) made me wonder if there were soup
kitchens. I'm terribly sorry to generalize and this thread isn't about homeless people I'm afraid.

Not offended, however the America I lived in was no nirvana, despite living in one of the more affluent and genteel parts, it was, like here a patch work of the sublime, the ridiculous and the catastrophic in equal measure. The fact I chose to return to the UK in order to live and work was a reflection of the elements that I deemed more important than the others. That is all I know and I know I know very little beyond.

Soup kitchens, night and day shelters all exist and are very welcome.... some however chose not to use them...

[red-beard]

Jim, you don't carry a firearm because you know you're going to need one. If you go someplace where you KNEW you were going to need one, you wouldn't go. You carry a firearm "just in case", like a fire extinguisher.

But if you review the video I posted, you will find that case, like many others, that criminals are generally cowards. If they think they will be hurt or shot, they will avoid the situation. They want easy prey, not someone who will fight back. And certainly not someone with a chance.

You may not think you are anti-gun, but your responses are those learned from the anti-gunners. To steal a part of a phrase: "the trouble is that you know so much that isn’t true..."

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by jcommin

I'm not an anti-gun guy. My thoughts are my thoughts. I have been to China and it probably the safest place I have ever felt in the world. No one pan handled me, I had no fear walking down alleys in Shanghai or Nanchang, no matter what the hour was. Why? It is a police state: cameras everywhere and no guns.

You haven't been panhandled in China? Where the hell did you go? I've been stalked by legless kids on creeper boards. I've had panhandlers gather around and bang on the window next to my table while dining indoors. China is only a police state in the political sense. Mess with the gov't. and you get the horns. Mess with anyone else and they turn a blind eye. As a white guy, I have it a little better than most, since the cops there take crimes against foreigners pretty seriously. But rest assured, there are a LOT of people in China who have zero fear of the gov't. and they have some serious and violent crime there. They still have highwaymen there! Yes, really. They'll drop a bunch of boulders or a large tree across a major road and either rob you when you stop or just demand outrages tolls to move the barriers. It ain't a police state at all like you're thinking. And they have riots there all the time, mostly in the countryside, like thousands per year.

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Jim, you don't carry a firearm because you know you're going to need one. If you go someplace where you KNEW you were going to need one, you wouldn't go. You carry a firearm "just in case", like a fire extinguisher.

But if you review the video I posted, you will find that case, like many others, that criminals are generally cowards. If they think they will be hurt or shot, they will avoid the situation. They want easy prey, not someone who will fight back. And certainly not someone with a chance.

You may not think you are anti-gun, but your responses are those learned from the anti-gunners. To steal a part of a phrase: "the trouble is that you know so much that isn’t true..."

Red, I didn't know I sound like an anti-guy guy, not intentional I assure you. I find you comments essentially true.