If only British citizens had something to protect themselves....

[HardDrive]

Rioting spreads to third British city - World news - Europe - msnbc.com

Oh the humanity. If only British citizens and business owners had something to defend themselves with. A weapon of some kind that fit in the hand, yet could dispatch an assailant from a safe distance. That would be a welcome respite from this sticky wicket.

[Rick Lee]

You're not allowed to defend yourself there. You can't use a kitchen knife to kill an intruder wanting to rape your wife. I even read B&E is not a crime there if no physical harm is done to the homeowner. What good are weapons when any use of them lands you in prison?

[Geronimo '74]

I would think twice about shooting that assailant when probably all his buddies have a spoon too.. And they would quickly turn on you... (I suppose that when everybody is allowed to carry, the bad guys would be carrying also, no?)
It would be very easy to suddenly find yourself on the wrong side of a gunfight...
Or am I seeing this wrong?



I'm not opposed to spoons at all (Actually, Stijn's spoon thread made my itch even worse...)

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Geronimo '74

I would think twice about shooting that assailant when probably all his buddies have a spoon too.. And they would quickly turn on you... (I suppose that when everybody is allowed to carry, the bad guys would be carrying also, no?)
It would be very easy to suddenly find yourself on the wrong side of a gunfight...
Or am I seeing this wrong?



I'm not opposed to spoons at all (Actually, Stijn's spoon thread made my itch even worse...)

You've seen too many American movies. Most thugs don't carry guns. They are so rarely challenged, that they don't have to. Maybe the real gang bangers in American inner cities carry more often, but the kind of hooligans who cause riots and protest the World Bank meetings would run with soiled shorts if ever faced down by an armed citizen. They know cops will only use tear gas and rubber bullets and they are prepared for that.

[Heel n Toe]

One of the Brits' comments on that link sums up one aspect of the problem very well... and is equally true for the U.S. as well as any country that operates a similar pervasive "government assistance" insanity.

"The underlying problem is the destruction of the family. The result is a generation of immoral, unprincipled, uneducated alleycats charitably called men who prey on and freely impregnate equally immoral and vunerable young women. Chances are that most of these lousy young vandals and petty thiefs were "raised" by these unwed mothers who are encouraged in their unhealthy lifestyles by the promise of receiving totally unearned "benefits" (ie., welfare/charity/handouts - money earned by their working and contributing neighbors, and heavily "appropriated" by our uninspired taxing agencies to simply hand out to the unproductive drones in our society - thus perpetuating our dying welfare state).

Until personal virtue and the sanctity of family are taught in our schools and re-enthroned in our communities, these riots in the streets and the related vandalism and pillaging (stealing) by those crooks who will never be satisfied with the level of their unearned government handouts will only increase until we have total anarchy."

[MFAFF]

Seeing as I am in the midst of this it might surprise some that guns 'might' make things worse rather than better.

Sure it would be 'nice' to think that I could 'defend' my home from attack if I had a gun. On the other hand if these rioters had easier access to guns (which they might well, legal or not) then the situation itself might be a whole lot worse than it already is....

On balance the lack of guns is possibly a better one at the moment here.

[A930Rocket]

Wouldn't that be nice to read in the paper here in the US instead of their normal drivel?

One of the Brits' comments on that link sums up one aspect of the problem very well... and is equally true for the U.S. as well as any country that operates a similar pervasive "government assistance" insanity.



"The underlying problem is the destruction of the family. The result is a generation of immoral, unprincipled, uneducated alleycats charitably called men who prey on and freely impregnate equally immoral and vunerable young women. Chances are that most of these lousy young vandals and petty thiefs were "raised" by these unwed mothers who are encouraged in their unhealthy lifestyles by the promise of receiving totally unearned "benefits" (ie., welfare/charity/handouts - money earned by their working and contributing neighbors, and heavily "appropriated" by our uninspired taxing agencies to simply hand out to the unproductive drones in our society - thus perpetuating our dying welfare state).



Until personal virtue and the sanctity of family are taught in our schools and re-enthroned in our communities, these riots in the streets and the related vandalism and pillaging (stealing) by those crooks who will never be satisfied with the level of their unearned government handouts will only increase until we have total anarchy."

[red-beard]

When ever a criminal is interviewed, the one thing that they fear is an armed victim.

Case in point:



These "boys" are substantially similar to the ones described by the above posters

[azasadny]

Whenever I want to see what is going to happen to us, I look at the UK. Once the preeminent world power, now a third world country, powerless, full of immigrants who hate the British and angry miscreants.... This is what awaits us...

[petrolhead611]

The vast majority of damage has been done to commercial and public buildings,not to housing or people, where mobs of hundreds of people have been rampaging, looting and setting afire, very many of whom are children.
You going to shoot 10 year olds?
Unfortunately both the Prime Minister and the Mayor of London were out of the country on vacation but they are back now and we now might see the police firing rubber bullets and deploying water cannon if the rioting continues.

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by azasadny

Whenever I want to see what is going to happen to us, I look at the UK. Once the preeminent world power, now a third world country, powerless, full of immigrants who hate the British and angry miscreants.... This is what awaits us...

No, I actually think we will look more like Mexico: gated communities, graffiti on walls, abandoned factories and buildings, old cars on the streets, a real have and have not world.

[slakjaw]

I was just over there.

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

You've seen too many American movies. Most thugs don't carry guns. They are so rarely challenged, that they don't have to. Maybe the real gang bangers in American inner cities carry more often, but the kind of hooligans who cause riots and protest the World Bank meetings would run with soiled shorts if ever faced down by an armed citizen. They know cops will only use tear gas and rubber bullets and they are prepared for that.

One has a different mind set when someone is packin'. I remember an incident in Soho, London. I was sitting at an outdoor cafe with2 collegues late in the evening. A customer got into an agrument with the owner. After shouting, obsenities and eventually food throwing, my collegues and I hit the ground. I thought bullets were going to fly. After the incident, the person next at the next table said to me "you guys are yanks". I acknowledged that if this was Chicago, someone would have been shot.

Knowing the enviroment, you know the limits. It's different in each country.

Rick: what would happen in China? I have been there... Can you do what can be done in the USA or the UK? I don't think so.

[red-beard]

Jim, how many people has Rick shot when he got into an argument? When someone dinged his 911, did he shoot them?

The stats show that the people who have a chl are more law abiding (factor of 5) and understand the laws concerning use of a firearm better than the police. Your statements are speculative at best, and are probably made up by some anti-gunner group. They simply are what happens in Hollywood, not real life. The "Wild West" wasn't even the wild west.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by jcommin

No, I actually think we will look more like Mexico: gated communities, graffiti on walls, abandoned factories and buildings, old cars on the streets, a real have and have not world.

The USA will never tolerate UK levels and styles of social support/aid. So yes, we will look more like Mexico, and the energy exports of Canada will make them the UAE of North America.

[azasadny]

Everyone NPR interviewed in London this Am sounded just like Ali G. Booyah!!!

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by petrolhead611

The vast majority of damage has been done to commercial and public buildings,not to housing or people, where mobs of hundreds of people have been rampaging, looting and setting afire, very many of whom are children.
You going to shoot 10 year olds?

10 yr. olds did that? Are you joking? I thought we had a lot of bad parents in the US. You have 10 yr. olds who do stuff like that?

I've never seen riots like this spread to residential areas in the US. But rest assured, private homes would be well defended in the US by armed homeowners and they'd not be asking to check ID's or age before shooting rioters, looters, marauders, etc.

[red-beard]

The footage I've seen did not show 10 year olds.

[slakjaw]

it cracks me up. We take better care of our homeless here in the USA than they do in the UK.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by jcommin

Rick: what would happen in China? I have been there... Can you do what can be done in the USA or the UK? I don't think so.

I don't know what would happen there. Depends on whether the unrest were in a major city or in the countryside. In the countryside, the police would probably be outmanned by farmers with pitchforks and they'd run away. In the cities the cops would have unlimited manpower, backed by the army. If the riots got to the point of threatening the regime, I don't doubt they'd shoot people. But honestly, I don't care if someone is armed or not. If you're destroying property, hurling rocks and bottles at people and setting fires, I have no problem with your getting shot. Doesn't matter what country it's in. Rest assured, in China they'd be going after the instigators once it was all over and they'd be disappeared and everyone would know about it. Add cell phones and the Internet into the mix and I don't know how bad it would get before the state cracked down. Rubber bullets and water cannons only deter the amateurs.