Electric Heater recommendations?

[Burnin' oil]

I have 750 square feet of finished basement with no heat source. Any recommendations for an electric heater? I have been thinking about the EdenPure but don't have much experience. I hardly ever go down there, it's mostly for the basement monkey, so I don't need to keep it toasty, just survivable.

Low temps around here rarely are below 30, usually 35 - 40 degrees.

[304065]

Check out the Kitchen & Bath issue of FINE HOMEBUILDING, there is an article about electric resistance heaters. I'll look up the top couple names for you.

[craigster59]

These are economical and efficient. Would probably work well for your area.
Electric Wall Heaters | Electric Radiant Heaters | Radiant Systems Inc | Radiant Systems

[jyl]

Look at oil filled radiator models with fan blowers. Quiet, economical, safe, inexpensive. 750 sq ft is big but two of the $50 units should keep it "survivable", if it doesn't satisfy you're only out $100.

[Grog]

The Edenpure is a waste of money. They really hype them up, they are infared heat, a french fry light/warmer/light bulb. All electric heaters are 100% efficient, all the current that is converted to heat goes into the room. Gas and oil are not 100% because you lose heat with the exhaust that goes out the vent pipe. Anytime you have a heat exchange, ie. flame on the tubes that house air goes through to be warmed up, or heat exchange in a heat pumps closed loop to the air system, you loose efficiency. All the heat produced in a electric heater goes into your house or room.

I would get a wall heater with a thermostat that you can turn down low when you are not in the room. If I remember right all 1500watt 120 heaters put out the same BTU's, not sure what the square footage rating is. If you get the full 1500watts and it is too much it, the thermostat will kick it off. Better to have too much than not enough. If a wall heater is not possible, I like the portable oil filled heater suggestion above, I have 2 of them for cold rooms, they heat well and are almost silent without the fan.

[hardflex]

I have a couple questions about this.

If it's all 100% efficient, does that mean localized space heaters are as efficient as putting in a central air unit?

Would 15 100 watt incandescent light bulbs give off the same heat as a 1500 watt space heater?

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Grog

The Edenpure is a waste of money. They really hype them up, they are infared heat, a french fry light/warmer/light bulb. All electric heaters are 100% efficient, all the current that is converted to heat goes into the room. Gas and oil are not 100% because you lose heat with the exhaust that goes out the vent pipe. Anytime you have a heat exchange, ie. flame on the tubes that house air goes through to be warmed up, or heat exchange in a heat pumps closed loop to the air system, you loose efficiency. All the heat produced in a electric heater goes into your house or room.

I would get a wall heater with a thermostat that you can turn down low when you are not in the room. If I remember right all 1500watt 120 heaters put out the same BTU's, not sure what the square footage rating is. If you get the full 1500watts and it is too much it, the thermostat will kick it off. Better to have too much than not enough. If a wall heater is not possible, I like the portable oil filled heater suggestion above, I have 2 of them for cold rooms, they heat well and are almost silent without the fan.

The efficiency has been greatly improved for fuel fired heaters to the point that fuel is much cheaper. But that wasn't the OP's question.

Originally Posted by hardflex

I have a couple questions about this.

If it's all 100% efficient, does that mean localized space heaters are as efficient as putting in a central air unit?

Would 15 100 watt incandescent light bulbs give off the same heat as a 1500 watt space heater?

In theory, yes. In reality should be close providing the reflector arrangement compares. I have used a 25 w bulb to heat and maintain automotive styling clay at 140* in a closed cabinet.

[svandamme]

100% efficient in turning electricity into heat, perhaps.
But it's not an efficient way of heating because electricity isn't produced with 100% efficiency.

All methods for producing electricity and heating with that electricity are WAY less efficient then using the fuel to heat directly.
Nuclear is a special case because you can't do it on small scale and the obvious risks involved...



x amount of coal turned into y amount of electricity will yield less heat then x amount of coal used directly for heating.

Same for gas , wood, biofuel, oil, whatever.



Over here electric heating is almost impossibly expensive, even with night tarrif
it's way cheaper to heat with a high efficiency condensing gas heater..
1Kwh Gas will yield more heating then 1Kwh of electricity. fact.

How much does 1Kwh cost in the us? Gas or electricity?
As i understand, you guys have cheap as piss electricity...?
do you have special split tarrifs? peak and off peak?

[Zeke]

Electric power is not cheap in very many places in the US.

[svandamme]

Ok, but let's get some comparison going

How much is Electricity to you
peak
off peak

how much is Gas?

For me it's


13,56 c$/kWh Peak
8,97 c$/kWh Off peak

Gas
5,535 c$/kWh

I'm in Belgium supposedly it's more expensive then in neighbouring countries, cause we are a small country.
But you can instantly see it's more economical to heat with gas here.

[MysticLlama]

Yes/No

For the most part electric resistance heaters are all of equal efficiency. So you could buy any brand of 1500 watt heater and they'll perform the same.

There are other forms of electric heat though. A heat pump for instance (A/C run backwards) will almost always beat out a resistance heater because it's just *moving* heat around, not creating it. My heat pump is more efficient than my electric strip heat backup system all the way down to about 34 degrees outside.

It would cost a lot more up front, but something like a mini-split would cost less to run most of the time, and can also do A/C in the summer time.

As far as the smaller electric resistance stuff goes, I like the oil radiators too because they damp the fluctuations a bit and spread the heat out, so it's not so pinpoint. Or the in-wall with blowers to give some air circulation as well.

[Grog]

Sorry, didn't mean to open a can of worms. I just didn't want the someone to spend $300 to $400 on marketing hipe for an Edenpure. That $400 unit is just as efficient as a $20 dollar homedepot heater.

Originally Posted by hardflex

I have a couple questions about this.

If it's all 100% efficient, does that mean localized space heaters are as efficient as putting in a central air unit?

Would 15 100 watt incandescent light bulbs give off the same heat as a 1500 watt space heater?

An electric central air unit or electric forced air furnace would be less efficient because you would loose heat under the house from the duct work, also if the unit is not installed in the house, ie garage, the heat lost during heat exchange with the air side would go to your garage.

The efficiency rating of a light bulb, example, if it is rated as 60% efficient, it converts 60% of the energy (electricity) it uses to light, the other 40% is lost as heat. So if you are using a light bulb for light and heat, that would make it 100% efficient. If it is a porch light, than it would be 60% efficient, the other 40% would be lost to the great outdoors.

If you are talking about what is cheaper to use to heat your basement, that is dependent on the price of different energy sources where you live. Natural gas maybe cheaper per btu than electricity but a heat pump, like the other poster said only uses electricity to move heat, not produce it, thats what makes them more efficient or cheaper per btu. For me wood is the cheapest, I cut my own from my property, next would a heat pump, then duckless heat pump, electric wall or space heaters, than electric forced air furnace, then gas, but it is not available out in the woods. Not sure where burning coal would come in, but oil heat is last.

You are in California, how much heating do you need? Do you need to cool the basement in the summer? If think you would not use much heat, get portable electric heater or wall heater, If you need to cool it in the summer, a ductless heat pump would be the best bet, it cools and heats, and instillation is cheaper than a whole house unit. They are expensive, around $2000.00, plus installation. You might have some rebates and tax breaks. Check with your Electric company.

There is a web site where you can put in the price for each energy source, and it will tell you what is the most cost effective way to heat your home. I will try to find it later, got to get to work and make electricity. My gas turbine plant is 38% efficient, something the electric, zero emmission car crowd does not understand. So would that make electric vehicles charged by my plant only 38% efficient? More worms coming out of the can.

BTW, due to all the hydro power here, my home electricity costs $.05 per kw.

[gtc]

If the space is open, I think baseboard heat is a reasonable choice. I find that as long as you don't have too much clutter in the room, it circulates the air fairly well due to convection.

[1990C4S]

Electrically heated floor?

[Hugh R]

If its for the basement monkey (adult child) go cheap, like the $50 units. As JYL said the oil heated ones are good, no open flame or exposed glowing wires. Make sure its UL listed.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by MysticLlama

Yes/No

For the most part electric resistance heaters are all of equal efficiency. So you could buy any brand of 1500 watt heater and they'll perform the same.

There are other forms of electric heat though. A heat pump for instance (A/C run backwards) will almost always beat out a resistance heater because it's just *moving* heat around, not creating it. My heat pump is more efficient than my electric strip heat backup system all the way down to about 34 degrees outside.

It would cost a lot more up front, but something like a mini-split would cost less to run most of the time, and can also do A/C in the summer time.

As far as the smaller electric resistance stuff goes, I like the oil radiators too because they damp the fluctuations a bit and spread the heat out, so it's not so pinpoint. Or the in-wall with blowers to give some air circulation as well.

There's a lot to be said about heat pumps, but in short, pumps with a Air/Air heat exchangeer (reverse AC) Heatpumps are a scam, they aren't that efficient.. What you need is a heatpump that works with ground heat.. eg drill a hole, put water through that, then have the heat pump work off Water/air heat exchanger.

If you go deep enough , ground water is always more warm then ambient air time in winter.. thus giving actually decent results.

[MysticLlama]

Most heat pumps aren't air/air (at least how I think of it, i.e. a turbo intercooler), but a compressed refrigerant/air.

You compress the refrigerant on one side vs. the other to change the pressure, so they can go in either direction. Compress the inside and evap on the outside to heat the house, reverse it to cool the house.

My house costs about 1/2 to heat as similarly sized houses in the area with resistance strip furnaces.

Ground loop takes the idea and makes it even better, I'd love to be able to do that, but between the difficult access to do the drilling and the cost vs. savings, it just doesn't make sense. I'm considering adding some solar though.

Another possible idea for the basement situation is under rug radiant heating. Makes it feel warmer than it really is, which helps the cost effectiveness. They are fairly expensive compared to little space heaters though.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by MysticLlama

Most heat pumps aren't air/air (at least how I think of it, i.e. a turbo intercooler), but a compressed refrigerant/air.

You compress the refrigerant on one side vs. the other to change the pressure, so they can go in either direction. Compress the inside and evap on the outside to heat the house, reverse it to cool the house.

My house costs about 1/2 to heat as similarly sized houses in the area with resistance strip furnaces.

Ground loop takes the idea and makes it even better, I'd love to be able to do that, but between the difficult access to do the drilling and the cost vs. savings, it just doesn't make sense. I'm considering adding some solar though.

Another possible idea for the basement situation is under rug radiant heating. Makes it feel warmer than it really is, which helps the cost effectiveness. They are fairly expensive compared to little space heaters though.

A heat pump has to get it's heat somewhere to be efficient.. If you only get the heat from compressing cold air, you'll spend to much energy to produce the heat.

Eg simply compressing or refrigirant is the wrong idea if you want to heat with a pump. At least if you want to be efficient.

So you either need enough temp in ambient air...Or you need heat from the ground with a ground loop... in winter the ground is way warmer then the air.

just an airpump will not suffice in colder climates. it' less efficient then gas a heater. But that's not what the air/air heat pump companies will say, obviously they want to sell their stuff. Don't believe the hype. Without a ground loop it's a scam.

[MysticLlama]

Ah, I see what you're saying now.

Yes, mine has a balance point of about 34 degrees, at that point, it's less efficient than the resistive heat, so it switches over automatically.

Below that it would be rather pointless. A ground loop would either eliminate or push the balance point much lower.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Geothermal ground loops are fantastic - your consumption drops to virtually zero (basically whatever it takes to run a pump and a couple of fans). The up-front costs are staggering though and given the time it takes to amortize the cost of a typical residential installation (5-7 years or more) versus how long people tend to stay in their houses makes them unpopular. It's the same reason we have such shoddy residential construction in the U.S. - there's no incentive for most builders to think in terms of life cycle; most times they just want the cheapest thing that they'll get a couple of years out of and still look good enough for them to dump/flip the place thereafter.

I am seriously considering a geothermal installation for the house I'm in, as I'm not planning on selling (renting perhaps, but not selling for quite a while). Currently on oil-fired boiler which I hate. I've added oil-filled space heaters and a supplemental propane-fired ventless unit in the main living space which cut down consumption a lot (as well as an electric HW heater to pre-heat boiler water and feed the domestic HW loop in lieu of the boiler loop tap) but I'd love to shut the thing off for good and only have it as a backup. Right now I do still need it to some extent.