Home window replacement q's....

[LWJ]

Hey,
I have two experiences that lend some value here. 1) I worked for Pella for one year of horrible under-employment. 2) I am on a BOD with the smartest HVAC people in Oregon.

When I was at the Pella factory, I was very impressed with Fiberglass and have always considered that product as one I would buy. Why? Vinyl has a limited life span and is supposed to break down in UV light. Also, vinyl can't be painted. I think all white frames looks like crap. I will admit that I am sort of a snob and most people think white vinyl is fine. I just don't.

I have some old crappy aluminum windows on my house. I have been remodeling this place for the last 6+ years and have dropped serious coin in it. Did I replace windows? No. My HVAC friends tell me that the thermal loss of crap windows will never pencil out. Air leaks? Seal them up! Windows? VERY limited return on investment.

That is my opinion. Good luck. You will be fine with vinyl if you wish. The fiberglass product is supposed to be fantastic.

Larry

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

I looked into re-windowing our house about three years ago. I was quoted between $50K and $60K for all windows from Pella and Home Depot. Granted, I have a lot of windows and a couple large, oddly shaped windows, but I thought the quotes were way too much. They said the law requires tempered glass for all windows and sliding doors near the floor, which raises the cost significantly. This was using vinyl by the way.

If the window is less then 30" off the ground, then you need tempered. It should not be a huge cost difference.

[look 171]

I push for Integrity. Marvin's builder's window. Wood inside, fiberglass outside. I have them throughout my own house. Unless, the windows are spec out, I really like the Integrity series window. They are size specific and no exceptions. Cheaper compare to Marvin or Pella. I think they are just as good. I too do not like white frame. FG is paintable.

[cstreit]

Thanks for all the great info guys. Zeke, I did remember that, but hate to pester anyone directly.

We're looking at a range of $500 per window installed for vinyl to upwards of $950 for the higher end ones.

Double "wall" with argon and grates inside the panes are a must for us along with a few small other upgrades. The most basic on the nicer manufacturers are $400ea. I'm doing FULL replacement not pocket install because of some issues from the previous windows, I want the frames replaced. (leakage/damage related).

I don't want any outside wood. Spells maintenance. Means work for me down the line and i want as maintenance free as possible.


The sales guys pushed fiberglass because "it's stonger" but uh... in my mind the window isn't a structural element of the house, so as long as it's metal reinforced, does that really matter?

[chapo]

I believe the code for tempered glass in Ca is within 18 inches of the floor or adjacent to a door.

[RWebb]

FG will last longer than vinyl as per a post above, so in that sense is stronger

vinyl is also a high pollution product (affects people who live near the plastics chemical plant - if you care)

and vinyl outgasses vinyl chloride into your house, a toxic gas (got kids? how well is th house sealed?)

FG may give the house better resale value if you don't stay long enuff for the vinyl ones to start cracking (more common in Calif. than Ill.)

seems to me that vinyl windows also stick and don't slide well

[look 171]

Originally Posted by cstreit

Thanks for all the great info guys. Zeke, I did remember that, but hate to pester anyone directly.

We're looking at a range of $500 per window installed for vinyl to upwards of $950 for the higher end ones.

Double "wall" with argon and grates inside the panes are a must for us along with a few small other upgrades. The most basic on the nicer manufacturers are $400ea. I'm doing FULL replacement not pocket install because of some issues from the previous windows, I want the frames replaced. (leakage/damage related).

I don't want any outside wood. Spells maintenance. Means work for me down the line and i want as maintenance free as possible.


The sales guys pushed fiberglass because "it's stonger" but uh... in my mind the window isn't a structural element of the house, so as long as it's metal reinforced, does that really matter?

Is it a stucco house or is it wood siding? some other material? $200 for the window, $3-350 for the installation is too little (CA pricing) if it includes stucco or waterproof work. is that including plaster / drywall work and trim work on the interior of the home?

[A930Rocket]

It's been awhile, but tempered windows go in the stairwells, around the tub if within (60"?) drain, w/in 24" radius of doors. All others are required to be tempered if within 18" of the floor, greater than 9 sf and one more item. All 3-4 conditions must be met, not just one, to be tempered.

[look 171]

Sorry, it is 18".

[dennis in se pa]

Zeke - what is being done today in place of capping with aluminum? My neighbor had new windows installed last year and the contractor capped the old wood with aluminum.

STRENGTH - folks the window is not a structural member of your house. It just holds the glass in place. A reasonable quality vinyl made by a known manufacturer will be fine. No one really cares if the replacement windows are fiberglass or "CARBON FIBER" They do care if they are replaced for cleaning and insulation matters.

[skunked]

the few retrofit window jobs I've done we used Milgard windows. They had a manufacturing plant down in Hollister so we ordered them direct and picked them up at the their facility. I remember saving thousands of dollars cutting out the middle man and installation was fairly straight forward.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by azasadny

Aluminum frames don't work too well in the colder climes. The aluminum carries the cold right into the house, like the steel doors do. Our neighbor has older aluminum frame windows and they are terrible in MI. I'm sure they're good in FL, since they are more heat stable than vinyl.

AL windows now have a thermal break in the frame.

Originally Posted by look 171

If the window is less then 30" off the ground, then you need tempered. It should not be a huge cost difference.

No.

Originally Posted by chapo

I believe the code for tempered glass in Ca is within 18 inches of the floor or adjacent to a door.

Yes.

Originally Posted by look 171

Sorry, it is 18".

Originally Posted by dennis in se pa

Zeke - what is being done today in place of capping with aluminum? My neighbor had new windows installed last year and the contractor capped the old wood with aluminum.

STRENGTH - folks the window is not a structural member of your house. It just holds the glass in place. A reasonable quality vinyl made by a known manufacturer will be fine. No one really cares if the replacement windows are fiberglass or "CARBON FIBER" They do care if they are replaced for cleaning and insulation matters.

Nothing new on the capping, I just don't like the look or the negatives.

Strength does not imply that the window can or will carry a load.

BTW, A930Rocket is spot on with the code. The numbers are 18, 24 and 60. But I don't understand the part about multiple conditions. Any one of those conditions call for tempered glass. If the window is divided, only the portion within the parameters needs tempering.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by skunked

the few retrofit window jobs I've done we used Milgard windows. They had a manufacturing plant down in Hollister so we ordered them direct and picked them up at the their facility. I remember saving thousands of dollars cutting out the middle man and installation was fairly straight forward.

If Milgard let you buy and collect your windows at the factory, they have whored themselves out.

[dennis in se pa]

"Nothing new on the capping, I just don't like the look or the negatives."

Capping is a vast improvement for old weathered wood. Bugs will get anywhere, including under siding, so that is not a valid reason not to cap. And ventilation certainly should be provided for in the capping process.

Are you telling me you did window replacement for a living and never capped windows?

[dennis in se pa]

Here in SE PA we are lucky, I guess, to have a few local manufacturers. Certainteed among them. Competition keeps the prices down.

[skunked]

Originally Posted by Zeke

If Milgard let you buy and collect your windows at the factory, they have whored themselves out.

IIRC we had to use my buddies GC license. This was 10+ years ago so things may have changed.

[A930Rocket]

We used the ICC codes which state the following.

What you have to do depends on what code you municipality adopts.


Tempered or laminated glass must be used in the following locations:

Glazing in doors and enclosures for hot tubs, whirlpools, saunas, steam rooms, bathtubs and showers. Glazing in any portion of a building wall enclosing these compartments where the bottom exposed edge of the glazing is less than 60 inches above a standing surface and drain inlet.

Glazing adjacent to a door where the nearest exposed edge of the glazing is within a 24-inch arc of either vertical edge of the door in a closed position and where the bottom exposed edge of the glazing is less than 60-inches above the walking surface.
EXCEPTION: Tempered is not required when there is an intervening wall or other permanent barrier located between the door and the glazing.

Glazing in fixed or operable panels, other than those locations described in items 2 and 3 above, that meets ALL of the following conditions:
-Exposed area of an individual pane greater than 9 square feet
-Exposed bottom edge less than 18 inches above the floor
-Exposed top edge greater than 36 inches above the floor
-One or more walking surfaces within 36 inches horizontally of the plane of the glazing
EXCEPTION: Tempered is not required when a protective bar is installed on the accessible sides of the glazing 34 inches to 38 inches above the floor. The bar shall be capable of withstanding a horizontal load of 50 pounds per linear foot without contacting the glass and be a minimum of 1-1/2 inches in height.

-Glazing in any hand railing regardless of height above a walking surface
-Glazing in walls and fences used as the barrier for indoor and outdoor swimming pools and spa when all of the following conditions are present:
The bottom edge of the glazing is less than 60 inches above the walking surface on the pool side of the glazing
The glazing is within 5 feet of a swimming pool or spa deck area
Glazing in walls enclosing stairway landings or within 5 feet of the bottom and top of stairways where the bottom edge of the glass is less than 60 inches above a walking surface
NOTE: Refer to Section 2406 - Safety Glazing, 1994 Uniform Building Code for reference of the above information.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by dennis in se pa

"Nothing new on the capping, I just don't like the look or the negatives."

Capping is a vast improvement for old weathered wood. Bugs will get anywhere, including under siding, so that is not a valid reason not to cap. And ventilation certainly should be provided for in the capping process.

Are you telling me you did window replacement for a living and never capped windows?

Yes, I have never installed AL over wood of any kind. You have forced me to say it looks like a trailer park.

But, I live in a mild climate....



with a lot of trailer parks.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Chris,

Is there a Menard's near you? If so toke a look at their store brand windows. They are double pain, vinyl clad and easy to install. Wife and I did ours by ourselves and we had to remove all the wood down to the rock work and start over. The pricing was so much better than anyone else provided.

End product provided an immediate impact! We noticed an immediate decrease in drafts in the house and cost of electricity and our spider population dropped to near zero. Worthwhile effort, all told.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by azasadny

Aluminum frames don't work too well in the colder climes. The aluminum carries the cold right into the house, like the steel doors do. Our neighbor has older aluminum frame windows and they are terrible in MI. I'm sure they're good in FL, since they are more heat stable than vinyl.

modern aluminIum frames, at least on this side of the ocean are not solid aluminIum but built around plastic chambers/air pockets to insulate the inner aluminIum from the outer aluminIum frame.

these are the ones i got