Corolla timing chain alignment

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Leak down test shows "low" as well as consistent across the board. Seafoam treatment in the morning.

Low loss? Or low sealing? Seafoam can't hurt if the oil is full and relatively clean and the filter is up to it.... if the filter is older all that crap that gets dislodged will just clog the filter.

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

Eric - I have two of the 3.0 Toyota's; A '92 (replaced on warranty at 75,000 miles, now weak compression on 2 cylinders) and a '99 Camry with 176,000 running perfectly. Can I PM you a question or 2? Thax

Always, no problem

[romad]

Corolla doesn't have "lifters" they are pusher. Anyway mine was burning oil and down on gas mileage and it was a burned exhaust valve on number 4.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by romad

Corolla doesn't have "lifters" they are pusher. Anyway mine was burning oil and down on gas mileage and it was a burned exhaust valve on number 4.

Exactly what happens when a "pusher" is too tight and keeps the exhaust valve from completely seating, lol

[sammyg2]

Doan know much about them fancy furrin engines but seems like iffn it's all noisy and such, I'd wonder how old the chain is and if the automatic chain tensioner is still working and if the chain had stretched until it's slapping on the slipper guides.

It hasn't jumped a tooth yet but if it does ......

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Low loss? Or low sealing? Seafoam can't hurt if the oil is full and relatively clean and the filter is up to it.... if the filter is older all that crap that gets dislodged will just clog the filter.

Low loss. Put it back together, cleaned plugs and seafoamed into a vacuum tube slightly for a few times then drowned it and let it set for an hour.

I don't know what did the trick but the noise became very audible, clear and consistent - rod bearing. I have a feeling putting oil in it yesterday morning helped eliminate the "jumbled" portion of the noise the most.

I have heard a very minor version of this noise from as long as 20k miles ago and thought it was resonance from a heat shield.

So I put some seafoam in the oil and putted around the neighborhood looking like a mosquito fogger while the seafoam cleared out of the pistons.

Ordered the bearings - $22 -and will install Saturday.

Thanks Eric for all the help. The link you provided had the same pictures in the Haynes book and was a much more thorough description of the process.

I hope you are not going to tell me I have to have the block line bored in Japan. I do need to find if the con rods bolts are stretch bolts.

Here is a video of the beast crying out in pain.

Rod bearing - YouTube

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Doan know much about them fancy furrin engines but seems like iffn it's all noisy and such, I'd wonder how old the chain is and if the automatic chain tensioner is still working and if the chain had stretched until it's slapping on the slipper guides.

It hasn't jumped a tooth yet but if it does ......

And I bet the water pump is original from 2000. Tick tick tick

[Bob Kontak]

Well the hillbilly fix did not do it this time. Crank was too far gone. 3 journals plasti-gauged ok but a fourth was half a thousandths undersize and scored - gauge read just beyond service limit. Other three were marginal as to journal surface even though within tolerance. Some heat stress noted on rod big ends.

I think I will go back to Eric's earlier posts and take the extra steps to fix the oil issues.

Probably value in buying a used engine with a decent crank (and without a heat stressed engine) and then do the low oil loss rings and open the oil return holes.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Probably value in buying a used engine with a decent crank (and without a heat stressed engine) and then do the low oil loss rings and open the oil return holes.

Just take it to any decent machine shop and have the crank machined. They could do just the rod journals 0.10 over and leave the mains STD (they would micropolish it). It would cost $100-120. A set of quality fitted rod/main bearings would cost about $60. Minneapolis Crankshaft Supply in downtown Mpls charges under $180 for the whole kit (return your core) and ships worldwide, but really any machine shop anywhere could do it without messing up. Machine shop 101.

Make sure you have them check the rods as that one rod will likely be out of round. My machine shop charges $10 a rod to resize the big end, but that's pretty cheap.

Boiling, checking, and mic'ing the block runs about $100 and honing adds another $10 a hole.

The rings should run about $60 for the updated Hastings set; more for Toyota. Or do pistons and rings together for about $110 (cheap Chinese available for $70), but then you really should bore 0.10 over for another ~$100.

SO.... my point....DON'T buy a used motor. Have your current motor refreshed. It should be rebuildable.

[Bob Kontak]

I like the idea of buying a fitted kit - that is $220 cheaper than I thought, also. Might just send them (MCS) the rods along with the crank work and have the block worked on in Akron.

Are you saying I can get a set of "oversize" pistons and rings for $110 and have the bores opened for $100-ish?

I actually like the engine now that I have seen a bit of it.

I'll be chatting you up. :-)

Thanks Eric.

Bob

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

I like the idea of buying a fitted kit - that is $220 cheaper than I thought, also. Might just send them (MCS) the rods along with the crank work and have the block worked on in Akron.

Are you saying I can get a set of "oversize" pistons and rings for $110 and have the bores opened for $100-ish?

Yes. But you may not need oversize. Your machine shop will measure it and let you know. Personally, I would have it bored ~0.020" (0.50mm) based on the exact dimesions (not specs) of the new pistons. Your machine shop will fit them and bore/hone accordingly. Going 20 over guarantees that everything is square and straight.

Since this is an older car with higher miles and not a race car or 911, I'd just do the Evergreen pistons (Chinese) that are proliferating on eBay. My engine parts wholesaler has been carrying them now for a couple years and my machine shop has good things to say about them.

They're $71 with rings (incl shipping) on eBay.
Pistons with Rings Chevy Toyota 1.8 1ZZFE DOHC 16-Valve | eBay

I'm not sure how "good" the rings are, but I'm sure they'll work

[Bob Kontak]

I do want to make sure whatever rings are install are superior to the original design regarding oil blow-by so I can research that. Nice that the prices are favorable.

Edit: OK - I need to not get ahead of myself. Will pull engine and check bores. May just take to the shop as I don't have a ridge reamer.

[kaisen]

Hastings 2C4947 is the updated ring set
My wholesale online site isn't operational on Sundays so I can't look up prices
Seems to me they were around $60, but might be more

[Bob Kontak]

Thanks. Need to get the verdict if originals can be reused and if the bore is within operating limits. Will take a few days for that. Gotta get the 911 valve covers back on and have it mobile so the boss is not freaked out about all the iron clutter (as she is now) in the garage.

[Bob Kontak]

Hi Eric,

Machine shop says bores / pistons are ok. Big ends on con rods must be bored and rod journals on crank ground. Micro-polish on mains only. We will use the Hastings rings you recommend.

The shop has drilled additional return holes in pistons. However, I offered to get additional info if I could from you. If you have a summary of the process that would make me feel more comfortable. There are two holes on each side currently and you can see a boss in the casting where the holes go through to the center of the piston.

I did call Toyota and they did not indicate there was an updated ring set. They definitely had updated pistons so I am assuming the oil relief is better in these.

Many thanks again.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Hi Eric,

Machine shop says bores / pistons are ok. Big ends on con rods must be bored and rod journals on crank ground. Micro-polish on mains only. We will use the Hastings rings you recommend.

Great! Hopefully the crank machining and bearings are inline with the estimates I gave.

The shop has drilled additional return holes in pistons. However, I offered to get additional info if I could from you. If you have a summary of the process that would make me feel more comfortable. There are two holes on each side currently and you can see a boss in the casting where the holes go through to the center of the piston.

They already HAVE drilled the holes?

You have the oldest pistons if you have two 1/16" holes on each side. The new-er revision had four 1/8" holes on each side. The newest (2005-up) design has seven holes on each thrust/skirt side (see photo comparing rev 2 and 3).



You should be able to make the holes bigger, 1/8" and drill two extra.

Your machine shop will know how/where to drill the holes in "safe" places... I couldn't find a write up online doing a quick search.

I did call Toyota and they did not indicate there was an updated ring set. They definitely had updated pistons so I am assuming the oil relief is better in these.

They may not even know they have changed over the years.

Here is Toyota of Europe's TSB.....

gen7_oil_consumption

Here is a Toyota forum post:

piston oil holes - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

Good luck!

[Bob Kontak]

Perfect. Price is a few buck more locally and this guy did work on my 911. Akron can use all the commerce it can get, too.

He is waiting on me to provide data I get from you. I will print pics data and drive it over to him.

All of this will cost much less than a "cheap" very used engine. Engines that are in good shape (from mileage only) are $1,500 plus.

Thanks - talk soon. Monday for the machine work to be done.

Will advise.

This data has saved me a boat load of money and heartache. Thank you, Eric.

Edit:

I printed your picture of the 2nd and 3rd version of the pistons and some of your comments and drove it down to the machine shop.

He grunted and said, "I thought it would be about like this". So he will do the 2nd version update. That has to provide about five or more times better flow-out(in?) than the two per side set up.

[Bob Kontak]

Machine work took a few extra days. Assembling now.

Mains were ground 0.010 as well as rod journals. Got the Hastings rings. Big end of rods done also.



Hopefully, it will no longer be an oil burner. :-)

[Bob Kontak]

Running well. Loved how I could move the crank with new surfaces and matched bearings by hand fully torqued.

Made a few bone head moves from inexperience with this engine that ate way more hours than I care to admit.

1. The power steering pump should not be slung over on the windshield - it should be hanging down when the engine is dropped in - no room to slide it between the firewall and the block.

2. The block mounted "sliding" bushing inserts for the power steering and alternator that squeeze against the parts when installed should be pressed back while on the engine stand - not after the engine is dropped in.

3. The silly springs on the exhaust manifold bolts that keep tension on the donut gasket go on the bottom of the exhaust pipe and push up on the gasket - NOT IN BETWEEN the flanges. This move was worthy of the Darwin award. I took time to check crank end play and plasti-gage the bearings but did not take time to look at the picture in the book of the exhaust hardware.

A bone head move that proved favorable was breaking the Variable Valve Timing Oil Control Valve. It interfered with removing one of the head bolts and it was frozen in the block from all of the heat build up varnish and I did not have a clue what it was until after I broke it in half from reefing on it. Is still took a drift and some major whacking to get it out. Seems it is a pretty important part for this engine and after putting about 30 miles on the car I gave it a little throttle and the engine sounded different than ever before - like a mini version of kicking in the secondary throttles on a four barrel carb. So I am thinking this part may not have been functioning properly.

Enough rambling. Thanks for all the insight on the original timing chain question and a big thanks to Eric for the engine refresh and piston fix info.

[Bob Kontak]

Here is the new VVT oil control valve

[VincentVega]

Thanks for the update. Good work.