Police invasion

[Grady Clay]

Police invasion

Please, our LE members inform me of the justification of an ‘intrusion’ of one of my employees home at 3:30 AM today.

This is a single-family duplex with no crime in the area.
At 3:30 AM today the Denver Police were beating on their door demanding entry (no warrant presented).
I heard “Police. Open the door” on their cell phone.
This was a single mom and two kids sleeping.

In subsequent discussion with the ‘Command Officer’, he described the conversation from his officers as a ‘request’ to ‘open the door’. My recollection of what I heard was an official demand to open the door. With me on the phone, they refused to open the door without a warrant. Thankfully the officers understood the Constitution and went to the sidewalk.

So … How does this affect us?

Have any Pelicans experienced (or observed) similar situations?

Have any Pelicans (as LE) been involved?

Please tell your experiences.

Best,
Grady

[widebody911]

So the cops did not bust in? Colorado must "The Gentle State." In any other state, the family would already be in jail or dead.

[Grady Clay]

I suspect they didn’t “bust in” because they knew I was on the cell phone listening (and potentially recording). There was a recent case where Denver officers were charged based on recorded cell phone audio of a situation. This was later confirmed with a video recording. Slam dunk – fired. The City may pay millions.

I’m distressed that any good family can be assaulted at 3:30 AM by police demanding entry without an official warrant.
I’m even more distressed by the official response claiming to support the officers in deference to what I heard. This seems to be illegal CYA at it’s finest.

I suspect there is more to come.

Best,
Grady

[KFC911]

Grady, I seem to remember you chiming in when a Wilmington, NC swat team shot and killed an 18 yr old kid through a closed front door some years back. This "militarization" of our LEO's must cease . I think Wilmington settled for almost 5 million on that one...

edited to add: I've said it before...many of us law-abiding Pelicans would die in a similar situation through no fault of our own. LE's make "mistakes" ALL the time...they have a thankless job, but somehow "more restraints' must be implemented. No-knock entry's are a "death sentence" for many of us imo...

[flatbutt]

With respect Grady, what you describe does not appear to be an invasion or an assault.

[Rot 911]

Obviously they must have been doing something illegal. Why else would the cops be there beating on the door?

Seriously, more people need to understand that this is not a Communist state where the government has the right to make unreasonable demands upon its people. Good on her saying come back with a warrant. And good for you for recording the event just in case they did beat the door down.

[johnsjmc]

What am I missing here. Why were the police at the door in the first place? Mistaken identity? Incorrect address?
I had a similar situation years ago but certainly not as scary as it would have been for a single mother with children.
. A lousy neighbour of my wife,s (then my girlfriend) called the police and compained some guy just drove into their driveway and spun the tires in their flowerbed.
The stupid police officer showed up at my door at 3AM . The 911 I was driving was in my drive . At the time my 2 yr old car was worth about what the complaining neighbours house was worth. A description of the car had no doubt been given and if not the plate id did.
Not knowing what was going on I invited the officer in (thinking my mother might have passed away or some other emergency brought him to my door.
After hearing the actual nature of the compaint I sent the officer on his way and asked him to go and wake the idiot neighbours (who knew exactly who I was) .The driveway was also actually deeded as a mutual drive half owned by my wife. I never followed up on it and to this day I think I should have made an effort to have them charged with filing a false complaint.

[Rick Lee]

I would think the local US Atty. would handle civil rights complaints against police when the police won't correct the problem. At the very least, I'd get in contact with a local tv reporter.

[LakeCleElum]

We need the whole story. AND, there is a difference between "Open Door" and "entry/intrusion". They probably just wanted to talk to her about a complaint of some sort. Why wouldn't she open the door and talk to the Officers?

For all we know, a witness saw her kid rob a local store and run into the house. Maybe they wanted to talk to her about a noise complaint? No enough info here.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

We need the whole story. AND, there is a difference between "Open Door" and "entry/intrusion".

For all we know, a witness saw her kid rob a local store and run into the house. Maybe they wanted to talk to her about a noise complaint? No enough info here.

zackly. there is more to this that we are not getting.
BTW they don't need a warrant if they have probable cause .....................

[nota]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

zackly. there is more to this that we are not getting.
BTW they don't need a warrant if they have probable cause .....................

I still am amazed at the 110% support for fascist tactic's from the rightwing

who falsely claim to support personal rights over the state power

but always line up behind the PIGS
AND NEVER WILL SUPPORT THE PEOPLE

[HardDrive]

Police do illegal things all the time, but in this specific case, it does not sound like they crossed the line. Alarming, but not illegal.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

I wonder, was there a mistake in the address? Could LE have been called to a different address for an issue? Did they realize they made a mistake?

If a mistake was made, an apology is due. Mistakes happen, it is how we deal with them that proves our worth.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by nota

I still am amazed at the 110% support for fascist tactic's from the rightwing

who falsely claim to support personal rights over the state power

but always line up behind the PIGS
AND NEVER WILL SUPPORT THE PEOPLE

And I am still amazed at how some people will knee-jerk into a conclusion based solely on irrational, illogical emotion when they have little to no facts regarding the event.
Even though they don't have any details to support their conclusion, they have no problem accepting a baseless assumption as fact because it is consistent with their FEELINGS.
They DON'T THINK, they just react on emotion.
They don't ask questions, they don't analyze, they don't make any attempt to understand, they simply react in a way that supports their fantasy version of the world and that is consistent with their messed up emotional state.
Logic and rational thinking are totally foreign to them.
Demonstrates a serious lack of intelligence in my opinion.

[Laneco]

As it is a duplex unit, mistaken address is VERY possible. Also, in a situation of shared walls, if the neighbor may be armed, it would seem prudent to get the good neighbor out of harms way, especially if there are children in her unit.

On the other hand, if LEO was out of line, an apology is the very least that should be offered. Very dangerous situation to enter a house forcefully - for the LEO and for the resident. Someone is likely to be killed...

Be interesting to see how this pans out as more information comes to light.

angela

[sammyg2]

Questions for Grady:

1) Why did the police respond to that address?
2) Was it a mistaken address, of was there a complaint or was it part of a criminal investigation?
There had to be a reason why they knocked on that door. What was it and why did you leave such a vital and important piece of information out of the story? Was that simply an accident or was it an intentional ommission?

3) Why were you talking on the phone to an employee at 3:30 am?
4) Did she call you when the police showed up? Naw, can't be. If she did that you wouldn't have heard them knock on the door and tell her to open up. Based on your description, you were talking to her on the cell phone BEFORE the police showed up. Is that correct?
Is that normal for you to be talking on the phone to an employee at 3:30 am or was something going on that particular morning that she needed help or support with? Was it simply a coincidence that you were talking to her when they knocked on her door or were the two related?

Once these questions are answered we'll be able to understand the situation a little more clearly.

[Z-man]

Maybe because I'm an "East-coaster," or maybe because I grew up in a tough neighborhood, or maybe because I'm just paranoid, but I wouldn't have opened the door either.

Actually, I would have called 911 to confirm that the folks on the other side of the door are actually what they say they are - police officers. There are a lot of sick people out there who will impersonate cops and other vocations in order to gain access into a house for harmful intent.

If they were indeed cops, I would want to know why they are there before I open the door. If they can't explain their purpose while standing outside the door, they will likely be unable to explain their presence without a door. However, if they have a valid reason to be knocking on my door at 3:30am, I would be obligated to open the door --my life could be in danger (ex: fugitive loose in the area) and they may be there to help me.

-Z

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

zackly. there is more to this that we are not getting.
BTW they don't need a warrant if they have probable cause .....................

AU CONTRAIRE...WITH VERY FEW EXCEPTIONS, A WAARRANT IS REQUIRED...

4TH AMENDMENT:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Z-man

Maybe because I'm an "East-coaster," or maybe because I grew up in a tough neighborhood, or maybe because I'm just paranoid, but I wouldn't have opened the door either.

Actually, I would have called 911 to confirm that the folks on the other side of the door are actually what they say they are - police officers. There are a lot of sick people out there who will impersonate cops and other vocations in order to gain access into a house for harmful intent.

If they were indeed cops, I would want to know why they are there before I open the door. If they can't explain their purpose while standing outside the door, they will likely be unable to explain their presence without a door. However, if they have a valid reason to be knocking on my door at 3:30am, I would be obligated to open the door --my life could be in danger (ex: fugitive loose in the area) and they may be there to help me.

-Z

About three yrs. ago there was a home invasion in Phoenix by Mexican cartel types wearing Phoenix PD uniforms. That kind of stuff gives the homeowner just enough pause to not shoot and the bad guys just enough time to shoot first.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Dueller

AU CONTRAIRE...WITH VERY FEW EXCEPTIONS, A WAARRANT IS REQUIRED...

I think Sammy means there could well have been exigent circumstances to negate the warrant requirement. I'm not buying that unless it was just one or two cops who happened to be in the area and first to respond to a call. If it was a team of jackbooted thugs in full ninja regalia, then that would suggest no exigent circumstances.